Only the brochure pages have HT above them in my book, story part has HG.

Warren

still all going on about this???

you guys wanna be thankfull he even did a book. if i was norm, after reading all these comments, i would tell you all to stick it right up ya coitas, and then i would publish another book and fill it up with misprints, rubbish and useless ford paraphernalia hidden between the lines
i guess you just cant please everyone

"Reputations are made and broken as soon as you enter or leave my shed.."

We Wreck,

He didnt do the book as a favour for a mate or as a give away, he did it for a commercial purpose. Therefore there is an expectation that typo graphical errors have been removed and any facts contained within are correct.

The book presents well and i dare say many hours of research has gone into this. But there is an old saying, "measure twice, cut once" ie check and re-check by a third party before it leaves the room.

Norm will no doubt be unpleased by the critisism the book has recieved in this thread, but once again he did this for commercial reasons and released into a public forum so he should expect some flack.

So yes, we are still going on about this.

Carpe Diem

I will eagerly await the arrival of the book put together by all the knockers. It will be perfect, not one single mistake, will suit every reader. It will just be fantastic.

When do you plan on releasing it DA Barnes and 65ehpv?? I will gladly pay the $200 upfront (when you tell me the release date) as I just know that this book is going to be the greatest ever.

If there is no book, then shut the hell up, there will be no book that is ever perfect. just write in your books in big fat black texta the changes that need to be made, so that if anyone reads your book they will know just how good you are to pick up the faults.

I think the book is awesome value, well worth the $60.

you people whinge when there are no Monaro books, (Warren and him not reprinting) then you whinge when a book does come out. Grow up.

quote:

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Originally posted by D. A. Barnes

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr Terry
I think D.A. is being a tad harsh.

I dont quite get your point about the HQ speedos. Unless you go into a plant by plant VIN list & mention that there are imperial only, dual scale & metric only speedos, I think as a quick summary his March 73 statement is OK. How would you summarise the introduction of metric speedos into HQ production ?

Dr Terry


_______________________________________
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1. Those who can count.
2. Those who cant.

---

Thank you for supporting me here. I see that by the lack of activity in regard to Monaro Magic of late that readers have realised I was on the money with my comments.

HQ speedos in 1973. Here is what I know as fact. From 2/73 some cars were fitted with dual scale (220km/h-140MPH) instruments. By mid 1973 a resonable proportion of cars had them. The bulletin detailing the new speedometers came out around September that year and tells of when all cars would have them fitted in production. I have yet to see an original 350 car with a speedo other than 140MPH in it from pre October 1973. This subject would be good for one of your quizzes. The point in Monaro Magic is just wrong in relation to the speedos in HQ Monaros in 1973. I know guys with a lot more knowledge than I have on this and they would be able to show up the Monaro Magic comment even better. Looking at HQ cars will reveal a lot.

---

But the bulletin came out in June and states from July 1, so the cars you have seen between July 1 and October are incorrect or against the bulletin. So Norm was 4 months early and you are 4 months late.

And the bulletin states commencing July 1, so there should be no cars pre July 1 with them, maybe fitted by people like my dad who fitted lots of those stickers to speedos. So Norm made one error, all 3/73, you made several with bulletin date being September, some by mid 73 (All Mid 73), 2/73 and pre October 73 statements.

I guess what it comes down to is that if you are going to write a coffee table type Monaro book you really need to be very vague, no factual info etc. maybe just a picture book is what is required.

Another alternative is experts on each model should compile the info and a group book be published to stamp out all the incorrect facts.

I am prepared to contribute all the paperwork I have ammased to anyone willing to give it a go.

Finally i hope that you have also sent your concerns to Norm, so that in the event that he runs out of books and decides to reprint, he can make the changes and the reprint is perfect.

Warren

What Warren says about the dates of introduction of various items is valid. If Holden puts out a bulletin that all cars from this date have this item. Its a bit like an ADR change, after that date the item must be fitted.

But the reverse is not necessarily the case. Because GM-H had several factories producing the same product, dates of change varied accordingly. For example the amber front blinker introduction (HQ/LJ) was required by Feb 1973 (from memory), but at some plants, cars as early as Nov 1972 were already receiving them because stocks of the old harnesses & lights etc. had already dried up. The bottom line is that there no one exact date for the introduction of many items.

Even the intro of a new model varies wildly. The only dates that can be relied upon are the press release day & the public release day (at the dealership & in advertising). Because of re-tooling & set-up times, some plants are setting up for the new carl while other are still building the last run of the old model series.

Dr Terry.

_______________________________________

The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Warren Turnbull


But the bulletin came out in June and states from July 1, so the cars you have seen between July 1 and October are incorrect or against the bulletin. So Norm was 4 months early and you are 4 months late.

And the bulletin states commencing July 1, so there should be no cars pre July 1 with them, maybe fitted by people like my dad who fitted lots of those stickers to speedos. So Norm made one error, all 3/73, you made several with bulletin date being September, some by mid 73 (All Mid 73), 2/73 and pre October 73 statements.

I guess what it comes down to is that if you are going to write a coffee table type Monaro book you really need to be very vague, no factual info etc. maybe just a picture book is what is required.

Another alternative is experts on each model should compile the info and a group book be published to stamp out all the incorrect facts.

I am prepared to contribute all the paperwork I have ammased to anyone willing to give it a go.

Finally i hope that you have also sent your concerns to Norm, so that in the event that he runs out of books and decides to reprint, he can make the changes and the reprint is perfect.

Warren

---

I admire your research ability here. A great pity you didnt apply it to the book in question prior to it being printed. I have made a glaring error with the bulletin I was referring to. I mixed up GMP&A #139 dated September 5 1973 concerning the new 350 engines with the speedo bulletin. I offer sincere apologies to anyone who has been impacted by this mistake.

There is a guy in your club Warren, who has a mid-73 308 Orchid car with a 140 MPH speedo in it. I spoke to him about it and he said it often was a hot topic how there was no km on the face.

I like Dr Terrys take on this but even that cant explain why no 350 4-speed car to date has been identified as having a factory installed dual scale unit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul Jenkins
I will eagerly await the arrival of the book put together by all the knockers. It will be perfect, not one single mistake, will suit every reader. It will just be fantastic.

When do you plan on releasing it DA Barnes and 65ehpv?? I will gladly pay the $200 upfront (when you tell me the release date) as I just know that this book is going to be the greatest ever.

If there is no book, then shut the hell up, there will be no book that is ever perfect. just write in your books in big fat black texta the changes that need to be made, so that if anyone reads your book they will know just how good you are to pick up the faults.

I think the book is awesome value, well worth the $60.

you people whinge when there are no Monaro books, (Warren and him not reprinting) then you whinge when a book does come out. Grow up.

---

Just wait until the Nationals mate. My ears didnt deceive me. $200 will buy you several copies. We all agree that Norms book is great value for the images in it.

I admire your research ability here. A great pity you didnt apply it to the book in question prior to it being printed. I have made a glaring error with the bulletin I was referring to. I mixed up GMP&A #139 dated September 5 1973 concerning the new 350 engines with the speedo bulletin. I offer sincere apologies to anyone who has been impacted by this mistake.

Its not my book, I supplied info, read it once, made some corrections, made some oversights. Not an HQ expert like yourself, only just found the bulletin. So if you can make such a fundamental error as an HQ expert then please also excuse me.

Warren

On the speedo side of things, from what I have seen if they are VDO speedo,s they will have a stamped in month and year date code and if you are really lucky there could be a printed on day, month and year date code.
This can be seen in these pictures.
http://s872.photobucket....=view¤t=Speedo.jpg
http://s872.photobucket....=view¤t=Speedo.jpg
As you can see these are 72 and a 74 ones, So it should still be right for mid 73 as well.
Also from what I have seen the Flexidrive speedos only have a sticker on them,no stamped date code.
So less chance of getting a date from them.
Also the VDO date code can be seen while the speedo is still fitted to the car.
Anyway I am curious to know something about these speedos from after the bulletin date.
Has anyone looked at the date code on these ones and compared them to the build date of the car at all.
The way I see it, if you have a 140MPH speedo with a production date after July 1973.
It would indicate that they were still fitted after that date.

Late edit
I have checked a few things and I see that it was not a forced change
as such that made Holden change the speedos at this time.
What they were actually doing was part of a gradual change of the whole country to the metric system.
Even the road signs look to not have been changed until July 1974.
The point of all this is that Holden did not have to have them changed over on that date they just did it.
Which means if MPH speedos were fitted they were not breaking the law at all, so not a legal problem.
In my Sep 71,March 72 and Dec 72 HQ owners manuals they mention a 0-200kph speedo
So even as far back as 71 it was on the books.
The first mention of the dual speedos is in the June 73 Owners manual.
On checking a few of my speedos I found a 5/5/73 MPH one.
From the few I have with car build dates as well the speedos
seem to have around the 2 months turn over time for the units.
So if this is the case with this one it would have been fitted just after the change over date.
Anyway as I said before the answer is on your speedos themselfs.
Just check the date code.
I would be curious to see what the earliest kph speedo was that anyone has.

By the way I have a copy of Norms book and I think it is great.
I was fortunate enough to be mildly involved in the SS section.
From my involvement in this section I can say it was discussed by a minimum of four people,with knowledge/information on these cars.
So if anyone can tell me or show me anything that differs or is new to what is in the SS section.
Feel free to email me at [email protected]


Fantastic Work on the book Norm.
I really appreciate all the effort you put into it,
With out that effort we would not be discussing it here and even enjoying it as well. (Especially the SS section.)
Cheers Paul.

Edited by user Monday, 8 March 2010 12:05:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified