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jimbobhtute Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 1:58:33 AM(UTC)
jimbobhtute

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Hello to all. Just finished rebuilding the 186 engine with the new VK Electronic ignition. I followed the reapers guide on oldholden in regards to wires and relay positions. The car started perfectly first time, but when I tried to switch the car off, nothing happened, the engine kept going. I have the following wires in these positions on the Relay: Earth-85, Power from battery-30, Old ignition wire-86, New ignition wire-87. There must be a loop somewhere for this to be happening, but I can't see where. I was thinking that maybe 30 should be old ignition and 86 Batt power, but only guessing and need to find out first. The car seems to run ok without relay in place using old Ignition wire and swithed off as usual, but don't have volt meter and can't garrentee 12 volts. Is there anything else it could be besides wire postions?
On the coil + their is the new ignition wire, brown wire from dizzy, and a bypass wire from the starter solenode( appanently used for easiler starting on cold mornings-as told by Auto Elec). I thourght it might have been the bypass wire but, nothing changed when removed. The wiring used for the job might be a bit thin, but this should not effect anything in the short term I would think. Any ideas appreciated.

On another noted, I opened the plugs up to 1.5mm (.060), but the engine still seams to stumble at idle and run a bit rough. I this gap the standard?? On the dizzy itself it has a 6 degrees sticker on the vacume advance, is this an indication for anything???

cheers james

1970 HT UTE
1970 Green HT UTE...
RussVRute Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 4:07:51 AM(UTC)
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G'day James,
Mine works fine and it was wired up by an auto electrician like this:
Earth-85
Power from battery-86
New ignition wire-87
Old ignition wire-30

Cheers. Russ.

IGNORE THIS REPLY AND READ FURTHER IN THIS THREAD

Edited by user Monday, 23 January 2006 7:33:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

jimbobhtute Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 4:09:47 AM(UTC)
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Ok had a play, couldn't resist, I have put old ignition wire on 30, earth on 86, batt power on 85, and new remains on 87. The car managed to shut down with key this time but was sluggish starting up. Could this be due to the thin wires loosing amps or are
1970 Green HT UTE...
commodorenut Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 6:01:28 AM(UTC)
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Russ - you need to swap the old ign wire onto # 86, as that is the relay coil trigger, and put the battery power onto terminal 30, as that is the input.

The way it is wired according to your numbers would see the relay constantly on, and it's only feed
Cheers,

Mick
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RussVRute Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 6:56:11 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by commodorenut
Russ - you need to swap the old ign wire onto # 86, as that is the relay coil trigger
Dr Terry Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 7:06:40 AM(UTC)
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Hi Russ.

The 1st way you had it was correct.

30 = batt +ve
87 = coil +ve
86 = old coil feed (usually yellow)
85 = earth

85 & 86 can be swapped.

Your problem of not switching off (assuming the wiring is now correct) can be caused by leakage
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
RussVRute Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 7:31:21 AM(UTC)
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Sorry mick, I apologise, you were absolutely correct, I did some investigation and found that I had checked the positions for my original reply using a spare relay, and looking at the wire positions, and lo and behold, the relay on my ignition has the ter
jimbobhtute Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 8:09:56 AM(UTC)
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Dr Terry, I have already tried wiring it that way, and did not work. What do you mean leaking back through alternator light globe?? Not sure where that is on the HT.... Could it be a result from the thin wires used 2.5mm??? Maybe relay buggered. The only
1970 Green HT UTE...
commodorenut Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 10:05:40 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by russHXTonner
.....lo and behold, the relay on my ignition has the terminals numbered in a complete
Cheers,

Mick
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#10 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 11:08:12 AM(UTC)
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Hi Jim,

This can happen and has been discussed on here before. A search may turn it up as a fix was discussed (from memory and the thread would be a couple of years ago now, I think).

Cheers...Dave
jimbobhtute Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 4:16:12 PM(UTC)
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thanks Dave, will have a look

cheers james

1970 HT UTE
1970 Green HT UTE...
Dr Terry Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, 23 January 2006 5:14:35 PM(UTC)
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Hi jim.

I've seen this problem a few times now. When you switch the ignition off, if the motor is running, you can still get a small voltage at the brown wire from the alternator. The current flows thru the alternator warning light & this is still conn
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
jimbobhtute Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2006 8:08:15 AM(UTC)
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Ok I have found a fix, I think. I have relaced the old relay with a 5 pin Narva 40amp relay (resister type, P/No-68028BL). I have Replaced all the wires to the relay with 6mm wire excluding the remaining old ignition wire. Have followed the new relay in
1970 Green HT UTE...
commodorenut Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2006 8:30:07 AM(UTC)
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Your wiring is spot on.

I would play around with the plug gap. Different motors like different gaps.

I found 1.5mm to be good with stock compression on a blue motor, but when I upped the compression it ran better at 1.1mm. This was on real super i
Cheers,

Mick
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jimbobhtute Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2006 4:35:35 PM(UTC)
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So is there anyway of really knowing what the gap should be without lots of re-gapping attempts??? Mick you said you dropped your gap after upping compression, I'm running 10.1 Comp, was your roughly the same??? maybe find a happy mid-point between the st
1970 Green HT UTE...
commodorenut Offline
#16 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2006 4:57:38 PM(UTC)
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I think the original comp is around 9 or 9.2:1, which was happy at 1.5mm

When I upped the comp it would have been around the 10:1 mark (can't recall exactly, but when super was culled, I needed premium & 2 degrees advance to stop pinging).

I think 1
Cheers,

Mick
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jimbobhtute Offline
#17 Posted : Tuesday, 24 January 2006 5:50:28 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Mick, i'll give it a go tonight.

cheers james

1970 HT UTE
1970 Green HT UTE...
jimbobhtute Offline
#18 Posted : Wednesday, 25 January 2006 6:57:28 AM(UTC)
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OK Mick,
Adjusted plug gaps to 1.3mm, Car runs a lot smoother on idle, but hesitates to start, even after engine is warm, without accelerator input. Can the plug gap cause this?? or is this more of a timing/Elec inition problem (maybe not getting the
1970 Green HT UTE...
RussVRute Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, 26 January 2006 8:31:07 AM(UTC)
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G'day Jim,
I had problems with mine after I put the elect dizzy in (rough idle rough acceleration, etc.)until I just went and bought a set blue motor plugs and just left them with the standard gap they came with(I checked them of course to make sure they

Edited by user Thursday, 26 January 2006 8:41:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

308hjute Offline
#20 Posted : Thursday, 26 January 2006 9:02:31 AM(UTC)
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Russ,

What plugs are they? I am using NGK splitfires (I think they're called), no idea on designation #. They were the same plugs I had in before the electronic dizzy, just opened up to 1.5mm.

Kev

Edited by user Thursday, 26 January 2006 9:03:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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