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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
Just to clarify a few things.
80569K said "I thought that the term "VIN number" did not exist before 1/1/1970."
You are confusing VIN with ADR. The term ADR wasn't used before 1/1/70 as this was the date of the ADRs & associated compliance plate introduction. ADR = Australian Design Rule.
VIN simply means Vehicle Identification Number. Have a look at an HK workshop or parts manual, a VIN plate numbering breakdown is listed quite clearly.
Having checked my workshop manual I am very happy to stand corrected.
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Yeah its piss poor that someone did that Not Happy Jan. I can fully understand your frustration.
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byron is spot on you must have your plate details on the register imho as if stolen they are useless to anyone else....NOT HAPPY JAN i hope you get them back or at least had the numbers written down but even if you did find them proving they are yours is going to be difficult....if you have them on the register and recorded with a monaro club thats a different story at least you would have an organisation to back your claims.... as someone else said i find it very strange that someone would put the 80737 tags in there place so it would have to be someone you know as a complete stranger would of taken the 80737 tags aswell.... Edited by user Friday, 10 June 2011 7:08:59 AM(UTC)
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Just photographed my tags with my rego# and body numbers included in pics.
How do I get em on the register?
That is a horrible story, NHJ, some people....
I am investing in CCTV just working out the best option.
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I know this goes against originality, but why cant you engrave the number off the firewall onto the tags neatly. This would make them belong to the car and would make theft of tags a thing of the past if everyone did it.
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Unfortunately tags being taken from cars has been going on for a very long time, however now that they are very valuable it is happening even more often.
The tags have nothing to do with rego so the registration department has no real powers here, however, it is illegal to make a car something it is not, ie from a Belmont to a kingswood, and sell as such.
It should also be noted that in NSW they registered HK Monaros as sedans. They also did not record luxury level in thoose days, unlike today, when they regiter your Commodore as either a Commodore, Berlina, Calais, SS etc. So even a rego check on a chassis number in most states, if not all, will not determine if the car is a Monaro from the chassis number.
The Police fruad squad in your state is the people you need to talk to, as this has the potential to make a car something it is not.
Unfortunately, you only know the colour and trim, if you knew the other numbers this would make it possible to track.
If you have the owner manuals the numbers can be found in there, but contrary to what rallystripes put, many cars of this era do not have their books. The main reason for this is when a car went through a used car lot, they would take the books, so as to hide the previous owners from the new owner. This is not so much the case these days.
The number of Monaro owners that have their books is very small, hence the reason for removing this specification from concours at the Monaro nationals.
You might also find that the person who took the tags knew their value and to hide the fact they were gone put other tags there so that you would not know WHEN they went. This might have been from someone you met and mentioned you had the car. If the tags went the next week you would suspect them, but with another set of tags there you may not notice, hiding the trail as such.
Warren
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quote:
Originally posted by Not Happy Jan
Quite a few people are missing the point. These tags are what identifies a monaro body shell as being more or less valuable than another. eg a 327 gts is worth more than a base model 161. The way to truly identify one along with having all its required parts in place, is these tags. The people that know theses cars can usually tell if the tags have been removed or not and the fact that mine had not been made it rare in itself. I purchased my monaros all back in the mid to late 90's when they were not very popular or valuable. i never considered them to be something that i would ever make money out of and considering i never sold any of them when the ridiculous prices were around even tempting as it was, proves that they were more important to me than the money. In saying that i could never say never and if circumstances required then who knows. What has really hurt me the most is the fact that the person/s who did this to me are more than likely someone i know. For them to go to the trouble that they have and to try and decieve me and hide what they have done upsets me greatly. I would be having a whole lot less trouble accepting this had happened if the plates were gone and that was that. then i could believe that it could have been an opportunistic crime committed by just about anyone. But for the plates to have been taken and changed there are reasons that show it is entirely an inside job and involves people i once considered friends. I dont believe i will ever see my plates again i am more about finding someone to be accountable for their actions in one way or another.
Hi Jan,its not that i missed the point and and was thinking how else we could id your car,its just that i didnt want to say that your car is worth x amount of dollar$$$$ but now has had a lot of value wiped off it due to it having no tags imo. You are 100% correct about those tags and what they mean to your car. I really hope you discover your tags but as said before,imagine if they took the whole car? You are still lucky to have these cars and good on you for keeping it,shows your a true car enthusiast.
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hi all, thanks for the post's. Putting all this on here is just a way of venting a little bit and making me feel a little better. None of my monaros came with their books as they are/were cars that were sitting idle and in need of restoration. Many years ago when i started collecting them i was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a little book which i have read from cover to cover and back to front a hundred times, thanks Warren and Ben. From this book i was able to learn so much and realised the importance and value of the id tags as they confirmed what it was that i had bought /was buying. The police say that this is more than just a case of theft as there is also the matter of misrepresentation of a motor vehicle, or at least i think that's what he called it. I am not a bragger nor do i think i am entirely stupid, but after this event that could probably be hotly debated. I never advertised the fact of what monaros i had or where they were. i have always felt uncomfortable telling anyone about them in case someone decided they deserved them more than i did. This is absolutely an inside job due to many factors regarding the way this has all taken place. Yes i do believe they knew what the plates were worth i still don't understand why they would bother to try and hide their crime Edited by user Saturday, 11 June 2011 4:46:40 AM(UTC)
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What I don't get is the ID plates are worthless without the vehicle (of the right body ie GTS327 body), with the correct (plant and sequence) chassis number. If the person stealing the tags did so to profit from them they will end up on a car again one day and be seen. |
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
What I don't get is the ID plates are worthless without the vehicle (of the right body ie GTS327 body), with the correct (plant and sequence) chassis number. If the person stealing the tags did so to profit from them they will end up on a car again one day and be seen.
True, but some people im sure would only take the plate as enough evidence as to the cars status. if you could buy an gts327 for say $30,000 with the right id plates someone would snap it up without having the finer details ie plant and sequence verified. you wouldn't fool everyone but you would only have to fool one. Again, the disappointment for me is that i had the the magic "matching numbers" car and now i don't.
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That really sux mate. I guess we all take for granted our tags are still on our cars. I check my sandman, my VH SL/E and my LX SLR every now and then, and go 'phew....' If they were suddenly missing Id be down 10k or so in value just for some stupid little pieces of aluminium.. That are so important.
I hope you get them back and the dodgy ar$e who stole them gets their comeuppance!
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I still cant see why if they were engraved with the body number that they would become useless to anybody but the owner. They are only shinny bits of alluminium with the cars details, they are not actually the car. Its not a huge sacrifice to stop the shonky dickheads out there who steal them in the first place. Actually, I dont know who the bigger dickheads are, the ones who steal them, or the ones who buy them knowing they are stolen.
Whats worse, a set of tags with engraving on them, or no tags at all?
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Good idea in theory, but engraving them would take away the factory provenance for some people. What to do instead then? With them attached to the car, photograph them in macro and then further away but not far enough so that you can't make the details out and in that photo place one of the cars number plates maybe include the engine number on a bit of cardboard big enough to be readable. Take one of the chassis number too while you're at it. We all know that thieves will go to great lengths to get what they want and doing this might make it easier to get replacement tags or even allow you to get some Transport Dept history to demonstrate the cars bone fides. Edited by user Sunday, 12 June 2011 12:08:45 AM(UTC)
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You cant trust a photo. Watch someone who knows what they are doing in photoshop and you will never trust any photo you see again lol!
There has to be some simple idea that makes the tags useless to anyone but the car they belong to surly?
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The photo is for yourself only, why would you doctor your own photo?
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The people with a Genuine GTS327 wouldn't doctor their own photo.
Someone with a GTS 186 trying to pass it off as a 327 might though.
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on faking photos,
If you open the photo in photoshop, all the meta tag info from the shot is shown as modified, so its easy to disprove a fake...... If you have photoshop.
I do it in assessing the kids photos at school to see if they have modified their source images.
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Thats why you cant trust a photo.
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quote:
Originally posted by playwme
Someone with a GTS 186 trying to pass it off as a 327 might though.
Reckon the Monaro Register could bring them undone with the 327, IIRC wasn't there only 1400 or so made. HK Monaro's are a very murky story after 43 years, pity really but where there's money to be made there is also naughty people bending the rules.
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in the GT Falcon world a genuine car is validated and recorded and the owner can remove and store his tags away from the car.... because the car is now a "known" car the tag removal has absolutely zero effect on the value of the car... there are plenty of fake GT's (and i dont mean replica)but the genuine cars are well known and are confidently traded
but here in the behind the times holden community... you cant touch the tags or questions will be raised regarding its heritage....
the holden community needs to get its act together.... record these cars and stop these ar$hole thieves wrecking any more monaros.... isnt that the whole premise of the monaro clubs around australia and the monaro register, keeping the monaro name alive and recording car details for posterity.... the problem here is that recording and validating are 2 entirely different things...
my coupe needs a repaint.... but where can i leave it for the 6 weeks of work it needs.... having stripped everything off the car including running gear how can i send the shell off with the tags in tact and sleep at night... its an absolute joke tbh
Al
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