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HG HT HK Subframes
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Pacman Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 30 June 2011 12:49:52 AM(UTC)
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Hey guys just wondering is there a difference between the HG HK HT subframes?
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Dr Terry Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 30 June 2011 1:11:48 AM(UTC)
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There are quite a few minor differences, but they fall into 4 main types.

HK 2 headlight
HK 4 headlight
HT/HG 2 headlight
HT/HG 4 headlight

The headlight change only effects the radiator support area.

The big difference between HK & the later HT/HG type is where the 2 long 'tangs' protrude towards the rear to mount the gearbox crossmember on the later units. The HK crossmember just bolts to the floor beam & there are no 'tangs' on the subframe.

Dr Terry.
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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The HKTG Garage Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 30 June 2011 3:41:18 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
There are quite a few minor differences, but they fall into 4 main types.

HK 2 headlight
HK 4 headlight
HT/HG 2 headlight
HT/HG 4 headlight

The headlight change only effects the radiator support area.

The big difference between HK & the later HT/HG type is where the 2 long 'tangs' protrude towards the rear to mount the gearbox crossmember on the later units. The HK crossmember just bolts to the floor beam & there are no 'tangs' on the subframe.

Dr Terry.


There are thirteen types technically.

HK 2 headlight. Early type with no indent in engine bay for the brake booster. Large offset bracket with relay push rod used. Also no mirrored step down of the battery tray location on the drivers side for export models (LHD).
HK 4 headlight as above.
HK 2 headlight superceding above with indent for brake booster but no step down for export battery tray on drivers side.
HK 4 headlight as above.
HK 2 headlight with booster indent and export battery tray indent.
HK 4 headlight as above.
HT 2 headlight as above.
HT 4 headlight as above.
HT HG 2 headlight with a section cut out and folded back on the headlight panel but below the headlight and above the tie member to allow for air flow to assist cooling the brakes. Found on 81837 manual versions only.
HG 2 headlight as HT but with no hole for washer bottle clip.
HG 4 headlight as above.
HG 2 headlight 71 version as above but with hole for brake proportioning valve.
HG 4 headlight as above.

All HK had a spot welded bracket on the headlight support panel for the grille to be screwed on to. HT HG didnt.

As Dr. Terry said, HT HG had long rail type extensions spot welded to the inner sub frame legs. This is what the transmission cross member was bolted to as opposed the the HK where it was bolted straight to the floor.

Edited by user Thursday, 30 June 2011 3:55:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Dr Terry Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 30 June 2011 8:20:48 PM(UTC)
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Simon, you mention the LHD or 'export' battery tray, but to my knowledge all HK/T/G battery trays were mounted on the pass side inner guard. Why would it need to be moved for LHD, the alternator & starter motor are still in the same place ?

My belief is that the indent was introduced to give a better 'stretch' to the sheet metal as the inner guard curve was being pressed. All of the early subframes (without the indent) are ugly in this area.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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80569K Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 1 July 2011 6:33:29 AM(UTC)
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For info 2.555 in the HK parts book does not specify left or right hand drive for the engine harness, it does however list left & right hand drive instrument and ammeter harnesses.

Edited by user Friday, 1 July 2011 6:34:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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dirty davo Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 1 July 2011 9:07:34 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
Simon, you mention the LHD or 'export' battery tray, but to my knowledge all HK/T/G battery trays were mounted on the pass side inner guard. Why would it need to be moved for LHD, the alternator & starter motor are still in the same place ?

My belief is that the indent was introduced to give a better 'stretch' to the sheet metal as the inner guard curve was being pressed. All of the early subframes (without the indent) are ugly in this area.

Dr Terry


im with terry here on this one

dont wanna get too technical on how many different subframe assemblies exactly but! ;

all Left inner skirts were the same throughout

there were 5 (plus extra) different RH inner skirts in total

#1. hk early,(first cuppla months) with no indent for booster & no step (just ugly creased roll)in front as per terry explaination (none on monaro or brougham {maybe real early ones})

#2. hk still early,up til approx sept '68, with indent for booster but still no step near front(just ugly creased roll)

#3. later HK & all HT & early HG

#4. mid HG had a flat pressing to accamodate brake proportioning valve, but no 1/4" hole pressed

#5. later HG had flat pressing as above & 1/4" holes to bolt proportioning valve to

#6 & 7 possibly 8th (simon can help out with this one ,as belmonts had no trico washer pump fitted on wiper motor,they had small electric pump motor fitted on washer bottle)

then HK headlight support panels had 2 brackets to support outer grille that was 42mm deep for prem/brougham with 7mm diametre hole to accommodate a fine threaded phillips head screw to screw into matching threaded clip, as did HT & G prem/brougham.

But all HK single light fronts had a shallower 32mm deep bracket with 2.5mm wide hole slotted 9mm long up & down, for a self tapping screw to secure grille (which the self tapper used to do this opened the hole to approx 3mm wherever the screw mounted the grille best to line up with h/light surrounds)

further more (& now gettin technical for the anal restorer) the top locking panel on early HK had the carry over from HR right angle bend lip on front,(where HR had a stainless steel moulding fitted)whereas HK was exposed..

then later HK onwards rolled th front edge over to neaten it up a little!!

then we come down to later top locking panels & all replacement panels relocated the bonnet cable securing clip to 73mm away from bonnet catch panel( for woteva reason)instead of 125mm as all HK HT ones were. therefore reinforcement panel underneath was different pressing u shape cutout to accommodate this

regards DD

www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
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dirty davo Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 1 July 2011 9:13:27 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by dirty davo
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
Simon, you mention the LHD or 'export' battery tray, but to my knowledge all HK/T/G battery trays were mounted on the pass side inner guard. Why would it need to be moved for LHD, the alternator & starter motor are still in the same place ?

My belief is that the indent was introduced to give a better 'stretch' to the sheet metal as the inner guard curve was being pressed. All of the early subframes (without the indent) are ugly in this area.

Dr Terry


im with terry here on this one

dont wanna get too technical on how many different subframe assemblies exactly but! ;

all Left inner skirts were the same throughout

there were 5 (plus extra) different RH inner skirts in total

#1. hk early,(first cuppla months) with no indent for booster & no step (just ugly creased roll)in front as per terry explaination (none on monaro or brougham {maybe real early ones})

#2. hk still early,up til approx sept '68, with indent for booster but still no step near front(just ugly creased roll)

#3. later HK & all HT & early HG

#4. mid HG had a flat pressing to accamodate brake proportioning valve, but no 1/4" hole pressed

#5. later HG had flat pressing as above & 1/4" holes to bolt proportioning valve to

#6 & 7 possibly 8th (simon can help out with this one ,as belmonts had no trico washer pump fitted on wiper motor,they had small electric pump motor fitted on washer bottle)

then HK headlight support panels had 2 brackets to support outer grille that was 42mm deep for prem/brougham with 7mm diametre hole to accommodate a fine threaded phillips head screw to screw into matching threaded clip, as did HT & G prem/brougham.

But all HK single light fronts had a shallower 32mm deep bracket with 2.5mm wide hole slotted 9mm long up & down, for a self tapping screw to secure grille (which the self tapper used to do this opened the hole to approx 3mm wherever the screw mounted the grille best to line up with h/light surrounds)

further more (& now gettin technical for the anal restorer) the top locking panel on early HK had the carry over from HR right angle bend lip on front,(where HR had a stainless steel moulding fitted)whereas HK was exposed..

then later HK onwards rolled th front edge over to neaten it up a little!!

then we come down to later top locking panels & all replacement panels relocated the bonnet cable securing clip to 73mm away from bonnet catch panel( for woteva reason)instead of 125mm as all HK HT ones were. therefore reinforcement panel underneath was different pressing u shape cutout to accommodate this

regards DD

www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au


furthermore if anyone happens to be restoring an export aouth affrican HK HT HG with blue flame 6cyl?? i have some NEW OLD STOCK engine bay wiring looms to suit (part# 2820672)

email for pics if required) daveclassicauto.com.au

regards DD

www.bellarineclassicautos.com.au
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The HKTG Garage Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 1 July 2011 10:15:05 AM(UTC)
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#6 & 7 possibly 8th (simon can help out with this one ,as belmonts had no trico washer pump fitted on wiper motor,they had small electric pump motor fitted on washer bottle)


Please explain? 6? 7? 8? and also what has washer pump fitment got to do with this thread regarding subframes?
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The HKTG Garage Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 1 July 2011 10:16:55 AM(UTC)
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[/quote]


#4. mid HG had a flat pressing to accamodate brake proportioning valve, but no 1/4" hole pressed

#[/quote]

I for got about this one. That makes 14.
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The HKTG Garage Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 1 July 2011 10:21:59 AM(UTC)
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[/quote]


dont wanna get too technical on how many different subframe assemblies exactly but! ;

[/quote]

Why not? What if the bloke is restoring a car for concours? He asks the question on here and isnt given the full details? If we know it, then share it, regardless of how 'technical' it is. Because of the internet everyone is an 'expert' now. Bloke goes to sell his car which he thought he faithfully and accurately restored only to find the buyer points out the subframe is incorrect.

None of us know everything. But we are ever learning.

Edited by user Sunday, 3 July 2011 9:44:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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dirty davo Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, 3 July 2011 3:56:07 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
#6 & 7 possibly 8th (simon can help out with this one ,as belmonts had no trico washer pump fitted on wiper motor,they had small electric pump motor fitted on washer bottle)


Please explain? 6? 7? 8? and also what has washer pump fitment got to do with this thread regarding subframes?


would relate to whether a hole for ww bottle clip!!
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The HKTG Garage Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, 3 July 2011 9:43:25 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by dirty davo
quote:
Originally posted by HKTG Parts Recovery
#6 & 7 possibly 8th (simon can help out with this one ,as belmonts had no trico washer pump fitted on wiper motor,they had small electric pump motor fitted on washer bottle)


Please explain? 6? 7? 8? and also what has washer pump fitment got to do with this thread regarding subframes?




would relate to whether a hole for ww bottle clip!!


The washer bottle clip was deleted on HG all models. It is still listed in the HG parts book but I'm yet to find an HG with one or the hole for it.

Edited by user Sunday, 3 July 2011 9:45:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Oily Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, 4 July 2011 7:10:44 AM(UTC)
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Hi Folks,
Sub Frames have been puzzling for myself also, I have a Brisbane build HT from somewhere around September 69. Its frames are rusty and also not origanal. But searching for replacements has left me scratching my head. So thanks for the tips above, however have any of you noticed there are also two different shaped battery tray supports one with the inner edge straight and one with the inner edge dog legged. can anyone please tell me which is correct for a Brissy V8 HT. Also I suspect origanal V8's would not have the holes for the 6 cylinder's radiator adaptor duct self tapping screws that go into the top of the front tie panel (in front of radiator base) Any clues appreciated Thanks oily.
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The HKTG Garage Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, 5 July 2011 4:16:22 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by Oily
Also I suspect origanal V8's would not have the holes for the 6 cylinder's radiator adaptor duct self tapping screws that go into the top of the front tie panel (in front of radiator base) Any clues appreciated Thanks oily.


Hi Oily, yes those four holes for the six cylinder radiator support panel are evident on V8 cars too, even though they dont get used.
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RigPig Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, 25 September 2014 12:18:46 PM(UTC)
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This is an old post from a couple of years back but theres some usefull info here for me because Im looking for a good subframe for my late December 68 HK rebuild.
With all the minor changes to the design of these subframes can someone tell me if this is a later HK frame or an earlier one?
I'm not sure what a "no step near front just ugly creased roll" is, as mentioned above.

Edited by user Thursday, 25 September 2014 12:19:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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HK1837 Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, 25 September 2014 4:46:34 PM(UTC)
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That is an earlier type than what you want I believe.
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Dr Terry Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, 25 September 2014 8:26:12 PM(UTC)
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It looks like #2 on DD's list above.

This has the indent for the direct acting booster but no step, so it's pre-Sept '68, based on that info.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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RigPig Offline
#18 Posted : Friday, 26 September 2014 11:12:47 PM(UTC)
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What step are we talking about? The step where a right side battery might be installed? The frame in this photo has that step and it seems to be exactly the same as the one in my car in that area.
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Dr Terry Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, 27 September 2014 12:08:51 AM(UTC)
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Sorry RigPig, you are correct. I couldn't see the step in the photo, but on closer inspection it is there.

That section should be correct for a Dec 68 HK.

Dr Terry
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Dr Terry Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, 27 September 2014 12:12:22 AM(UTC)
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