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just wondering if anyone here has done this?
i've just bought a supercharged V6 (ecotec) and i plan on putting it in my tonner
i'm in research mode atm, i've already learnt alot :-)
from what i can tell, i need to get a vn/p steel sump and modify that, is that easy(ish) to do? most of the conversion places charge $660 for the sump alone!! and you have to give them a steel sump as change over!!
also, are the engine mounts and cross member easy to do??
any advice is appreciated :-)
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my mate will be helping me do this, were planning on using a VN auto and using a VN computer and loom, does anyone see any potential problems with this plan??
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It would be a lot easier to keep the supercharged motor & transmission with its computer & harness as a complete entity, It was all designed to work together & wiring will be simpler. Also getting an old VN auto to work properly with an S/C motor could prove difficult. The only 2 electronic items to sort then are the immobiliser re-program & the electronic speedo head, but compared to the sump & engine mount fabrication these are very minor.
The only other item that I can think of that can be a drama is the fuel pump control module. The S/C engine controls its fuel pump differently to the N/A motors.
Dr Terry |
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Thanks Doc, i'm seriously considering buying a conversion kit from V6 conversions, there $1410 but it's got everything, and could save me a hell of a lot of headaches!!!
i'm leaning towards keeping the s\c loom, puter and box, to be totally honest i'm totally lost when it comes the the computer side of things?
has anyone heard anything about the V6 conversions kits? good/bad? (other than them being bloody expensive!!)
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another question i just thought of is, i noticed AFTER i got the engine home the injectors were missing!!!
now i do know they are different than standard, but will standard injectors fit and work til i can afford to buy proper S\C ones?? or should i just buy the s\c ones and be done with it?
BTW V6 ecotec supercharged injectors are around $700 for 6!!!
i was f'n pissed when it was pointed out to me they were missing!!!
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I'd sell it all and buy a VN-VSIII V8 and auto. Heaps easier and cheaper to fit, no fancy sumps or engine mounts needed! |
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Stick with the S/C V6, something different to break up the sea of injected 5 litres.
Try to chase us the proper S/C V6 injectors, they flow a lot more juice than standard Ecotec injectors. I brought a set from eBay for around $250.
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i'll be sticking with the s/c V6, i think there a very understated engine!!
i'll keep a eye on ebay for some injectors
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gday dave,im looking at fitting an ecotec into my hg wagon.from what ive found on the net in regards to the sump, is a couple of the bolt holes need modifying on the vp steel sump to suit the ecotec plus the mods to make it fit into the engine bay.the ecotec trans needs to be modified for fitting a cable driven speedo so you can keep the original speedo.ive attached a link to a site that shows how a v6 was fitted to a hz sedan. http://members.ozemail.c...ttsueferguson/index.htm
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Dave come join us on Delcohacking.net for all the info you need on the electrical side
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thanks for the link pete, mmazz30, i'll check it out, i have alot to learn about the electrics side of things!
i'm going to try and find a engineer today to see what i can or can't do, i'm HOPING he'll let me use the V6 s/c engine with a VN g/box, loom and puter
it all comes down to the laws really? i was gunna just do it and not bother with the engineer but i should get it engineered, saves hassles down the track
if the engineer is going too cost much i might have to bail on the project, this seemed like such a good idea at first, but the costs are starting to mount up (i haven't spent anything yet other than the engine and box) just been planning and working out costs, i have been told by others a engineers cert could cost around the $1000 mark!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by davequey74
i'm HOPING he'll let me use the V6 s/c engine with a VN g/box, loom and puter
Why would you try & use the VN g/box computer & loom, if you already have the correct parts to do the job now. I doubt that the VN ECU will work with the S/C motor, the loom will definitely have to be modified to fit. Keep it the way the factory made it. Use the V6 with its auto, ECU & loom as a complete entity, to keep it simple & cheap. Dr Terry |
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Not to harp and the choice to use a S/C V6 is your personal choice, but if you use a HQ-HJ 308 bottom end with an EFI V8 top end in a HQ there is no need for an Engineer's involvement........
And it all bolts straight in using factory mounts, sump, radiator, power steering etc etc!
The same hard work bits - wiring and fuel are the same hassle for both engines.
The only bit that needs fabrication apart from exhaust and wiring is the tailshaft, although I did measure the requirement at one stage and I reckon a TH400 one using a 1-tonner front yoke will go really close. |
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i talked to the engineer today, i can't use VN ANYTHING, i MUST use the loom and computer that suits that year engine
also, the engine must have everything that the VS s/c left the factory with, cats, hard fuel return lines, unleaded filler neck, air box, all sensors, charcoal canister ect
the HQ brakes don't need any mods but he did recommend rear dics, also need a tail shaft loops
if i buy engine mounts from V6 conversion or CRS all i need is a receipt to prove it, if i make them myself i need them welded by a DLI cert welder
cost for the engineers certificate is $1200
Doc, i'll be using the VS s/c loom and computer now, it'll be a bit of extra work wiring and programming wise (security codes ect) but atleast it'll be legal and work as the factory intended, i just need to research a bit on how the speedo will work, i'm not sure on what to do there yet, i "think" that V6 conversions do a ecotec speedo kit, i'll email them and see what they suggest, the g/box i have is a proper s/c one so i assume it's a little stronger than a standard box?
Byron, you make a excellent point, the inj 5ltr is a great engine, i could save myself so many head aches by going this way, i have seriously thought about doing it too!
the only reason i'm going the s/c engine is i really like them, and i want something different than the usual V8 option, i'm still undecided on weather to go ahead or not, but atleast i've learnt alot just by researching it :-)
1 last question for now, what diff ratio would be best suited, i think the VS s/c had a 3:07, i have a 3:55, should i go something a bit lower or will the 3:55 be ok??
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Point out to the Engineer that HQ was designed to have a 350 SBC in the engine bay, and the HJ was designed for a 400ci engine and both of these had the same rear drums and didn't require a tailshaft loop! The HJ-HZ tonners were designed for a 308 and TH400, I have GMH proof they existed if you need it as many Engineers will tell you they didn't.
When you get to it, check the tailshaft length against a 1-tonner with TH400. They may be close enough for the V6 and auto.
The S/C V6's I drove I hated, not sure if i'd want one with a 3.55:1 diff either. Depending upon tyre size i'd go for a 3.08:1 diff. |
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hehe, the tail shaft loop made me laugh too
tyre size is 14", that's a good point to, the car it came out of would have had bigger wheels! i have a 2:78 diff here, maybe with the smaller wheels that'd bring it close(ish) to the 3:07 ratio?
what didn't you like about the s/c V6's?
i've only driven 1, it was a WH statesman, it was so smooth and i really liked the way it made it's power
the computer controls the wastegate, it bypasses the boost when at idol and light throttle driving for economy purposes, this can be changed so there's boost at just above idol, also add a 10psi pulley and they really liven up!!
a HQ tonner is about 300kg lighter than the statesmans too, so with a few engine mods (after the eng cert) i'm hoping it's going to be a nice conversion
i'm not a hoon and i don't speed, i just want a smooth engine that has a bit or go to it :-)
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Sounds like you have a lot of restrictions with what you can do in your state.i received approval in principal from the transport dept in wa for the v6 conversion in my hg.v6,4 speed auto,disc brake rear end (vp diff)tunnel mod to fit trans,custom tailshaft.pollution gear and fuel lines is a given but no need for an unleaded fuel filler as you cant buy leaded fuel now.i put on the form that all mods will be completed by myself,mounts etc.most people ive spoken to reckon conversion parts they have bought,whether its a chev into a torana or v6 into an early holden, have needed modifying to fit.engineer i spoke with reckoned about $450 to $550 to do a report.might be worth looking for an engineer thats into hot rods,custom cars.
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pete, i'm in Vic, yes the fuel filler i questioned, you can't even buy leaded fuel?? seemed silly to me!!
i'm going to talk to another engineer to see if they say the same and see what there prices are, at this stage, the $1200 eng cert is way too much and could (and probably will) stop the project :-(
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quote:
Originally posted by davequey74
hehe, the tail shaft loop made me laugh too
tyre size is 14", that's a good point to, the car it came out of would have had bigger wheels! i have a 2:78 diff here, maybe with the smaller wheels that'd bring it close(ish) to the 3:07 ratio?
what didn't you like about the s/c V6's?
i've only driven 1, it was a WH statesman, it was so smooth and i really liked the way it made it's power
the computer controls the wastegate, it bypasses the boost when at idol and light throttle driving for economy purposes, this can be changed so there's boost at just above idol, also add a 10psi pulley and they really liven up!!
a HQ tonner is about 300kg lighter than the statesmans too, so with a few engine mods (after the eng cert) i'm hoping it's going to be a nice conversion
i'm not a hoon and i don't speed, i just want a smooth engine that has a bit or go to it :-)
I drove a CV6 and it was awful in comarison to a CV8. I think the other was just an earlier Commodore or Calais but I thought it was nowhere near as nice as a 304. I helped my mate with an EFI 308 (just a standard red 308 bottom end) with VN top end into a WB tonner. It has a muncie and 3.36:1 LSD and it goes really well. I sourced a VN 180kW chip, and he fitted a knock sensor and patch harness. It has VN manifold and just an old 2.5" system, and an above standard camshaft. It is surprising how quick it was and still is. Goes harder than any 308 tonner i've ever been in and pulls as hard as a run of the mill carbied 350 SBC. So if the S/C V6 gets too hard and you decide to use a 304 at least you know you'll have a nice spirited car! His is too low geared though for highwat travel, and having a Muncie makes it a pain to tow with, so a 4L60 or 4L60E is a great idea for a tonner regardless of your engine choice. Just make sure you fit a good size cooler and use synthetic fluid for towing. If you get Memcal mods made to suit the diff ratio and tyre size maybe get an input added from a switch to disable the lock up converter when towing in adverse conditions - not sure if this is possible or not? |
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