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Holden assembly plant info
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castellan Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 12:36:09 AM(UTC)
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H1 thru to H5 Bris
H5 -- H9 Syd
J1 -- J9 Dand
L1 --L5 Adel
Now how does H5 work ? as it's both Bris and Syd ? So what is it saying ?

If I have a Brisbane made car with H1 what does that mean to have it say H2 or H3, H4 not to mention the H5, is it to do with imported parts like engines or CKD.

Do LH Toranas with the opel 4 cyl have set number different to the 6cyl and V8.

The chev eng HK to HQ have a set number.

Looking at the aussie Fords they have a letter for each state they are built in and a letter for the CKD country, L for USA and C for England.
Vic has 'G' for a car made in VIC be it Campbellfield or Heidelberg.
So a aussie ford falcon built in vic has 'J' for Australia first then a G for VIC so you get 'JG' on a falcon built their, but a Cortina built in VIC you have 'CG' the 'C' is for England CKD and 'G' for VIC and it's the Cortina wagon that is built in Heidelberg in VIC and it's not a Ford factory mind ?
The other Cortina sedans were built in NSW and they have a 'K' so you get CK.
Brisbane gets 'H'
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gm5735 Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 12:52:45 AM(UTC)
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According to the HK, HT and HG documents I have, Brisbane is H1-H4 inclusive, and H5-H9 inclusive is Sydney.
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HK1837 Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 2:12:13 AM(UTC)
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Whomever originally wrote that H1 is Brisbane, H5 Sydney etc needs shooting. It causes nothing but confusion.

What the situation really is, is that each VAP (vehicle assembly plant) assigned a PSN (known as a few things such as plant sequence number or production sequence number) to every vehicle they assembled. The body may have come from that location's BAP (body assembly plant) or another BAP (Mosman park only assembled vehicles from bodies from normally Elizabeth). Each of those VAP's had a PSN number sequence that started at a certain point from a certain date (from memory from the start of 9/67 for what we are talking about here):

H100000 - Acacia Ridge QLD.
H500000 - Pagewood NSW.
J100000 - Dandenong VIC.
L100000 - Elizabeth SA.
L600000 - Mosman Park WA.

So essentially there is no H5, L1 etc that means anything, it is just a truncation of the PSN. Once the VAP's PSN got to its limit eg Acacia Ridge reached H499999 it simply reset to H100000.

If you want to know where a vehicle's body was built or the vehicle assembled:

For HD-HG just look at the chassis number - it will end in 2 x letters eg HK34654AS, the A is Elizabeth body, S is Pagewood assembly. You can also pick by the body plate which will be from the BAP and the VIN tag from the VAP. From 1/70 it will have an ADR plate from the body plant. Note later HG don't have the second letter from memory.

For HQ-HZ the body tag will be from the BAP, the VIN and ADR tag will be from the VAP. The chassis number suffix will give you where it was assembled.
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commodorenut Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 4:46:04 AM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by HK1837
Whomever originally wrote that H1 is Brisbane, H5 Sydney etc needs shooting. It causes nothing but confusion.

Totally agree.

This is the perfect example of when someone is too close, or too wrapped up in something, and they forget that the rest of society isn't in that same place. Lots of theory and "paper engineers" are guilty of this...

The way it is written in the various manuals suggests the serial number is merely 5 digits, when the reality is that a true production serial (tag) number is 7 digits, and the 2 characters are merely the "prefix" as such for a range, from a particular plant.

The way you have written it, is how I have tried to explain it to numerous people, people who have read the "H1-H4" stuff, and become totally confused.

As early Commodores were assembled in 4 plants through to VC, then 3 during VH it causes no end of hassle to those who don't have a thorough understanding.

Cheers,

Mick
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castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 7:40:14 AM(UTC)
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So there is no H2, H3,or J2, J9 ETC.
They are all J1, or H1 only.
The paper engineers must know something that we don't, I am sure we may think they are nuts but they don't do things for just nothing.
Maybe export is H2 and where to ?
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commodorenut Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 9:13:22 AM(UTC)
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You've missed the gist of it castellan.

Forget about H1, H2 etc, and get back to basics.

The single letter prefix denotes the plants:
H = Sydney (Pagewood) and Brisbane (Acacia Ridge)
J = Melbourne (Dandenong)
L = Adelaide (Elizabeth)

The 6 digits - yes SIX digits after that letter, is a serially assigned number - one per body.

The combination of a single letter, followed by the 6 digits, is commonly known as the "tag number" but its true term is the Production Serial Number - PSN.

Holden effectively started the Dandenong plant at PSN # J100000, and ran thru to PSN # J999999 before returning back to PSN # J100000 again & re-starting.

Elizabeth kicked off at PSN # L100000 and went thru to PSN # L999999 before resetting back to PSN # L100000 again, and continuing (this reset happened several times during Commodore production).

Acacia Ridge also started at 100000, in this case PSN # H100000 and ran to PSN # H499999 before resetting back to PSN # H100000 again.

Pagewood commenced at PSN # H500000 and ran to PSN # H999999 before it reset back to PSN # H500000 again.

Thus you can see how:
J1*****, J2*****, J3*****, J4*****, J5*****, J6*****, J7*****, J8***** & J9***** = Dandenong.
L1*****, L2*****, L3*****, L4*****, L5*****, L6*****, L7*****, L8***** & L9***** = Elizabeth
H1*****, H2*****, H3***** & H4***** = Acacia Ridge
H5*****, H6*****, H7*****, H8***** & H9***** = Pagewood.

So even though 2 plants shared the same H prefix, cars from PSN # H100000-H499999 were from one, and cars from PSN # H500000-H999999 were from the other.

The H1, H2 etc is just leaving off the last 5 digits of the PSN #.

So to go back to your original post, when they say Brisbane made H1-H5, they really mean they made H100000-H499999.


And this illustrates perfectly why I said in my post that I agree with Byron, in that it confuses the hell out of people who aren't immersed in it.
Cheers,

Mick
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peter_flane Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 9:46:17 AM(UTC)
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Some people confuse body build and assembly build.

A body is the spot welded panel steel shell. On early cars they have no chassis number.

Assembly is the finished driving vehicle. It will have a chassis number.
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HK1837 Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 4:44:47 PM(UTC)
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You left out Mosman Park Mick. Starts at L600000.
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detective Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 5:32:12 PM(UTC)
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....further to all these shenanigans, the earliest 1948 Holdens had a bare shell body number that was stamped onto the battery tray ledge which was matched to a subframe number....

.... in typical GM/GMH style, the bare shell number didn't correspond (in most cases) to the body ASSEMBLY number!...my 1948 Holden has the bare shell numbers of 136 but was completed and finished into the 149th warrantied body assembly....this car was the Pt Pirie Dealer "Announcement" car (8 1100 M)...The 100th assembled Holden car

....this body assembly number is the one we all see on the body plate on all Holdens across all years and denotes a finished painted body... trimmed, glazed, with doors and boot hung for final shipment to the respective VEHICLE assembly plants....cheers fellas

Edited by user Tuesday, 16 December 2014 5:38:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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justgm Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 6:29:55 PM(UTC)
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Don't forget us GMNZ, our code is Z7 , but I also have a tag showing N7 which looks like it was assembled by NZ Motor Bodies at Sylvia Park which was a subcontractor to GMNZ for HQ utes. Mark.
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castellan Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 8:02:29 PM(UTC)
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quote:
Originally posted by commodorenut
You've missed the gist of it castellan.

Forget about H1, H2 etc, and get back to basics.

The single letter prefix denotes the plants:
H = Sydney (Pagewood) and Brisbane (Acacia Ridge)
J = Melbourne (Dandenong)
L = Adelaide (Elizabeth)

The 6 digits - yes SIX digits after that letter, is a serially assigned number - one per body.

The combination of a single letter, followed by the 6 digits, is commonly known as the "tag number" but its true term is the Production Serial Number - PSN.

Holden effectively started the Dandenong plant at PSN # J100000, and ran thru to PSN # J999999 before returning back to PSN # J100000 again & re-starting.

Elizabeth kicked off at PSN # L100000 and went thru to PSN # L999999 before resetting back to PSN # L100000 again, and continuing (this reset happened several times during Commodore production).

Acacia Ridge also started at 100000, in this case PSN # H100000 and ran to PSN # H499999 before resetting back to PSN # H100000 again.

Pagewood commenced at PSN # H500000 and ran to PSN # H999999 before it reset back to PSN # H500000 again.

Thus you can see how:
J1*****, J2*****, J3*****, J4*****, J5*****, J6*****, J7*****, J8***** & J9***** = Dandenong.
L1*****, L2*****, L3*****, L4*****, L5*****, L6*****, L7*****, L8***** & L9***** = Elizabeth
H1*****, H2*****, H3***** & H4***** = Acacia Ridge
H5*****, H6*****, H7*****, H8***** & H9***** = Pagewood.

So even though 2 plants shared the same H prefix, cars from PSN # H100000-H499999 were from one, and cars from PSN # H500000-H999999 were from the other.

The H1, H2 etc is just leaving off the last 5 digits of the PSN #.

So to go back to your original post, when they say Brisbane made H1-H5, they really mean they made H100000-H499999.


And this illustrates perfectly why I said in my post that I agree with Byron, in that it confuses the hell out of people who aren't immersed in it.
Right you are, thanks
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gm5735 Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 9:03:58 PM(UTC)
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Byron, are these the offending items, for which someone should be shot? They look perfectly clear and accurate to me, for the vehicles intended - HK, HT HG.

Also, most of the Melbourne cars I've seen have a single letter after the number on the firewall stamping, and not two letters. That letter is normally "M". Not all are like that, but most. Presumably this is because the body build and the vehicle assembly happened in the same plant.
I've seen Holden refer to the firewall stamping by a number of names, including "Vehicle serial number".
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HK1837 Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 16 December 2014 9:51:28 PM(UTC)
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That's them, not incorrect as such but very misleading information, probably written by a junior and never checked, and has been Chinese Whispered ever since. H500025 is the PSN, not 00025. There would be a 00025 for all assembly plants. The PSN was GMH's most important number for vehicle identification.

Most have the double letter but some don't as you say. For a time Dandenong stamped the firewall when it was horizontal, whereas other body plants did it after the shell was complete and painted. I can't recall the specifics but it may have something to do with that.

The firewall number was often called the Vehicle Serial Numbers as you say but it was always the chassis number as referred to by registration authorites until the end of HG, but again I have seen it misnamed in various places. Once HQ started it was a cowl number for Elizabeth and a tracking number for Pagewood. Elizabeth stopped using a cowl number around 1972-ish and Pagewood stopped using a firewall number around VB Commodore production. As you know from HQ onwards the chassis number was on the chassis rail.
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