Were the HK GTS 307 Monaros released only as a 2 speed powerglide or were they also released as 4 speed saginaws like the 327?

I read somewhere that the HK GTS 307 was only released as an auto, just want to know the facts, if anyone knows.

Matt

Of course HK GTSs were built with Saginaw 4-speed gearboxes.

It began like this.

When the HK range was first released in early 1968, the 307 (5-litre) V8 was only available with a Powerglide. When the Monaro range was released in July 1968 the Saginaw 4-speed, which was standard on the GTS 327 model, was offered as an option on he rest of the HK range. They were even seen behind 6-cylinder engines which made the ute or van available with a 4-speed for the first time. This was because the Opel 4-speed (optional on sedans & wagons) was not offered on commercials.

So, prior to July 1968 all Holden sales literature stated that the 307 was auto only. This is one of those things that some well-known motoring writers (who shouldve known better) have been spreading over the years. They seized on this sales info & it made them think that the 307 HK 4-speed was never made.

307 HK GTSs were more often seen with a Powerglide, but 307 Saginaws are still often seen around. From memory I used to own one, in the late 1970s.

Also it was one of those rear instances where the manual version was more expensive to buy when new, than the auto version. Even in those days it would have cost GM-H more money to import a Saginaw than a good old Powerglide.

Dr Terry.

Edited by user Tuesday, 24 March 2009 7:14:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

So the HK GTS 307 4 speeds were only sold as special orders?

Holden didnt actually market a HK GTS 307 as a 4 speed saginaw?

Does a chassis number give any indication as to when a car was built? (say pre 26,000ss = Prior July 68 etc)

Approx how many 307s were released and how many approx would of been autos?

Sorry about the questions! But thanks for the replys :)

Matt

The "DOC" is the man to answer most questions!!
yay for Dr Terry

I think you will find the 307 auto myth started in about 1982/3 when John Wright wrote Monaro Mania in Street machine magazine. This was the change over from the van era to the street machine and Monaros, although only 14 to 5 years old, were already hot stuff, a bit like the VTs to VZs today.

There were also articles in Motor, Whels etc written by John or other journos, who copied Johns stuff. The interesting part about Johns work was he always quoted the fact that there were 19 engine gearbox combos. Here they are from the sales brochure:

Monaro

161 with 3 speed
161 with all synchro
161 with 4 speed
186 with 3 speed
186 with all synchro
186 with 4 speed
186 with powerglide
186S with 3 speed
186S with all synchro
186S with 4 speed
186S with powerglide
307 with 4 speed heavy duty
307 with powerglide

GTS

186S with 4 speed
186S with 4 speed heavy duty
186S with powerglide
307 with 4 speed heavy duty
307 with powerglide

GTS 327

327 with 4 speed heavy duty

So counted the 19 but failed to realize there were two mentions of 307 4 speed. (plus a mention of 186S saginaw)

Then when spotlight came out in 1991, it copies the same info again, however Tony and Peda Davies must have been working on different parts, as Peda points out nothing but auto and in the specs Tony has the rear axle ratio for 307 4 speed as 3.36.

The interesing thing is, as Terry pointed out, is the fact that the 4 speed saginaw behind a 307 was dearer than the auto, by as much as $135 in a Belmont sedan to only $75 in a Premier sedan.

In the Monaro they were $115 for a Monaro coupe and $85 in a Monaro GTS.

These prices are from a January 1969 price list so might vary from other earlier ones.

Other interesting info about these 307 manuals is the fact that most GTSs have radius rods.

My final word on the myth is the number of road tests that were done on these 307 4 speeds, there were two rally cars, red Monaro coupes, a GTS at release and a Premier wagon. The whole thing is just another "fact" that still to this day has to be explained, argued vigorously by people who have old street machine mags etc or Spotlight on Monaro, and perpetuated by people who build web sites with the info from these. But I suppose the truth about the HP block is one of those things that "people cant handle the truth".

Warren

Byron

The heavy duty 4 speed on 186 and 186S on Monaro was never listed in the brochure for some reason.

The difference between a 307 4 sped and GTS 327 are as follows:

Engine including carby
Dual exhaust
Big tank
Front sway bar
Shocks
Radius rods (although they appear to be optional on 307 4 speed)

The 307 4 speed was optional with air conditioning.

Price difference was about $260, about $7000 in todays money. This makes the 307 4 speed good value for money compared to the GTS 327 and heaps were made. Only real advantage of teh TS 327 was the big tank and extra BHP, but a bit of work to the 307, as Byron pointed out, would do wonders. Especially late in the mdel run with the second type 327 have the less powerful engine

As you can imagine, there would have been lots of 307 4 speeds made during the period that the GTS 327 was not available, due to too high a demand.

Warren

The car on the home page on my website is an original Inca Gold 307 4spd (now blue).

Warren, I thought radius rods were standard on HK V8 manual? Every one I have seen has had them including a Kingswood sedan (ive never seen a 307 4spd ute or van so I couldnt comment if they had radius rods or not). I also thought they were standard on HT/G 308 manual?

_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?

Byron,

I once thought they were standard 307 4 speed GTS. However after some discussion betwen Ben and myself when writing the book, we found that they were optional on 307 GTS only.

The reason for them being fitted to Kingswoods is unknown, however they would require the 6" rims and wheel spacers for clearance.

As for radius rods on HT, they are V8 manual GTS only, although 308 powered HTs, other than Brougham are rare outside GTS, so would not be 100% yes or no on this. But my info tells me radius rods should only be fittted to GTS V8 manuals.

Warren

Hi,

I had such a car back in the mid 1970s. It was a Burgundy Maroon with Parchment trim 307 manual GTS Monaro. The rear suspension in it was identical to the GTS 327. It was a good car while I owned it.

I like the comment that someone else thinks the Just Holdens magazine is terrible in its portrayal of Holdens. Perhaps the title should change?

Gidday,
I own a HK GTS 307 4speed and I know of two others around the traps. Mine doesnt have the radius rods but does have the attatchment points in the rear wheel arch. Whether they were fitted or no I have no idea. One of the other cars does have the radius rods. In all other ways however our cars are the same. When purchased my vehicle did have the single exhaust and you could hardly hear in going.
Cheers
Al