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boosterless braking and HJ's
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greenhj Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 7 October 2010 6:11:57 AM(UTC)
greenhj

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so, i hate looking at the booster/master in the engine bay and there doesnt appear to a vast amount of room under the dash to simply reverse it.

Ive seen the dinky little 7" booster setups the rodders use, RRS make something to suit a fraud that uses a bellcrank setup for xy/xw to mount underdash, might be able to re-engineer it to work with Hq onwards.

what about a VH remote deal using a standard master, is there much difference in brakability (patent pending on the new word lol)

What im thinking about doing is giving the booster the raspberry sars altogether and giving a wilwood/tilton style dual master reverse swing setup a go.

anyone played with boosterless braking, how much more pedal effort is required?

secondly, if i go with a dual master setup, anyone want to have a ping at bore sizes that might work close to the braking system thats already there?

failing all that, tell me everything you know about the braking system on a HJ (girlock caliper) and ill work from there.

cheers

11.38@117mph
will go quicker

11.34@121mph
went quicker and faster, just not quick enough.

now being rebuilt with many more fasts

Edited by user Thursday, 7 October 2010 6:38:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, 7 October 2010 5:41:21 PM(UTC)
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Fit original drums on the front and remove the booster! No idea sorry about boosterless discs.

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peter_flane Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, 8 October 2010 7:06:08 AM(UTC)
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You can run remote booster, that is a booster after the master. That can be put under the front guard, and is how many EH Holdens are done because there is not much room to even put a booster at all on the firewall.

If it is old or rare - Cut it! http://www.ehlimo.com.au/
If it is old or rare - Cut it! http://www.ehlimo.com.au/
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lildog Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, 8 October 2010 7:19:52 AM(UTC)
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You dont even want to think about unboosted disc or for that thought drum brakes.
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peter_flane Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, 8 October 2010 8:02:40 AM(UTC)
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The only unboosted disc car I have ever driven is our VW Beetle, and that only weighs 800kg, and is pretty slow, so that probably shows where unboosted disc performance is.

If it is old or rare - Cut it! http://www.ehlimo.com.au/
If it is old or rare - Cut it! http://www.ehlimo.com.au/
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wbute Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, 8 October 2010 5:06:11 PM(UTC)
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I doubt it would pass the braking test for rego.
Try pushing the pedal down with the engine off and start the car and you will see how much assistance the booster gives.
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Dr Terry Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, 8 October 2010 8:41:12 PM(UTC)
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I personally don't think that it's worth the effort to hide a booster, just for appearance' sake. But here are some suggestions.

1. Because it's a dual circuit system, you could use two remote boosters VH40/44 style, one for each circuit, maybe one under each front guard.

2. Mount the master cyl 'drum brake style' using the upper pedal hole for more leverage & use softer brake pads & remove the proportioning valve. I've used this method on drag racing cars because of lack of engine manifold vacuum & they still stop well at 130 mph.

3. Use 2 smaller diam. bore master cylinders with a balance bar (race car style), again using the higher pedal hole for better leverage.

These will all work to varying degrees, but remember if it's a street registered car they will be illegal unless you get engineering approval.

Dr Terry

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greenhj Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, 9 October 2010 3:50:16 AM(UTC)
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thanks to all for replies.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Terry
I personally don't think that it's worth the effort to hide a booster, just for appearance' sake. But here are some suggestions.

1. Because it's a dual circuit system, you could use two remote boosters VH40/44 style, one for each circuit, maybe one under each front guard.

2. Mount the master cyl 'drum brake style' using the upper pedal hole for more leverage & use softer brake pads & remove the proportioning valve. I've used this method on drag racing cars because of lack of engine manifold vacuum & they still stop well at 130 mph.

3. Use 2 smaller diam. bore master cylinders with a balance bar (race car style), again using the higher pedal hole for better leverage.

These will all work to varying degrees, but remember if it's a street registered car they will be illegal unless you get engineering approval.

Dr Terry


Now thats what im talkin' about!

yeah, its more than a bit of **** factor to remove the booster, ill admit to that, but I reckon it just looks good to open a bonnet and see an engine, and not much else, lol.

cheers!



11.38@117mph
will go quicker

11.34@121mph
went quicker and faster, just not quick enough.

now being rebuilt with many more fasts
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HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, 9 October 2010 4:01:45 AM(UTC)
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You could try a smaller booster too. WB disc brake booster will fit straight in with WB pedal. And then you could run a little plastic master cylinder with inbuilt distribution (removes the block down on the rails) and WB brake lines.

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Jim5.0 Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, 9 October 2010 10:22:02 AM(UTC)
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I had a VH Valiant in the 80's that had factory un boosted discs.

They were ok at lower speeds and had good to heavy pedal feel (leaning towards the heavy side of things). In fact I'd go as far as to say that at parking speeds they were really great as they didn't give you that "smack into the windscreen" feeling that boosted brakes can.

However above 100kmh they were terrible trying to pull up 1400+ kilos of metal meant nearly pulling the steering wheel off the column.

Funny thing is Chrysler offered four different brake set ups on the VH. Unboosted drums all round, unboosted disc/drum combo, boosted drums all round (wild at parking speeds) & the normal boosted disc drum combo. The VJ had boosted disc drum combo end of story as the culled the options and model range right down to something more sustainable but I digress.

My vote would be Dr Terry's suggestion of dual VH40/VH44's or have a look at how they are done on any Jap van such as A Hiace as they have the master cylinder up in the dash.

Vandals and graffiti "artists" do everyone a favour and target parking meters and fixed speed cameras only.
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275monaro Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, 12 October 2010 9:57:27 PM(UTC)
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a mate of mine had a eh sedan with injected 5lt and he had dual boosters in the boot not sure what they were of but braking was outstanding maybe you could mount it in there
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