Fastlane
»
Holden Forums
»
Holden Technical Talk
»
Wheels HQ: 15"x8" front and 15"x10" rear
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
G'day Gents,
I'm looking for a set of wheels for my 1972 HQ 1 Tonner. I've seen a HQ before that had 15"x8" front and 15"x10" rear wheels but unfortunately, I did not have the chance to talk to that person and establish if he had any problems with rubbing etc.
The wheels I'm purchasing are "Ridler Style 635" wheels and they go for about 150$ each in the US.
I'm confident that the rear wheels will be OK on the 1 Tonner, but I'm unsure if the 15"x8" wheels / rims on the front will generate problems.
Anyone here who can help?
Thank you!
|
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,686
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 479 post(s)
|
I never use 8" on the front of HQ-WB. 7" fit and work much better. |
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6,053
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 200 time(s) in 182 post(s)
|
^^^^ Yes, 100% agree with what he said ^^^
8-inch wheel are offset too far outwards, 7-inch are far better. 8-inch or more on the front effect the scrub radius badly & are very hard on wheel bearings. They are also illegal in most states AFAIK.
Dr Terry
|
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0 |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
When you say they are illegal - what is the legal size? Can I mount the 15x10 on the back? Is there any information online that outlines what sizes are legal?
If 15x8 on the front is too bad, I'll go with the 15x7.
Thanks gentlemen for your swift replies!
You are legends! |
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6,053
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 200 time(s) in 182 post(s)
|
Depending on which spec sheet you read, the front & rear track dimension for an HQ-HZ One-Tonner is 60.4-inches or 1534 mm.
Most authorities allow 1-inch over track, so 61.4-inches or 1560 mm is your limit.
Track is measured from the centre of one wheel to the centre of the one on the other side. If you could widen rims equally (e.g. add 2 inches to each edge) it would have no effect on the track, but usually they are widened all the way outwards, meaning that for each extra 1-inch you add to each rim, 1-inch is added to the track.
One-Tonners were originally fitted with 6-inch rims, so if you fit 8-inch rims you are 2-inches over track. If you fit 10-inch rims you are 4-inches over track. Illegal & dangerous.
Dr Terry
|
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0 |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
Thank you so much for this information! Unfortunately, I would like to dig a bit deeper into this topic. What can I do to make it legal? Do I need a compliance plate? I've changed seats from bench to 2 seater and the compliance plate cost me 100A$. Can I do a similar approach for the wheels? When you say dangerous: is this because you think it alters the behaviour of the vehicle? Or dangerous becauese of the authorities? There will always be rules no matter what one tries to do, and sticking to them is a good idea - as long as they make sense. If they don't make sense we must NOT comply with them. Millions of innocent jews were put to death in Germany in the 1940ies because people 'did what they are told to do' by their greater authorities. Edited by user Thursday, 28 June 2012 10:35:14 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 435
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
quote:
Originally posted by Holden1Tonner
When you say dangerous: is this because you think it alters the behaviour of the vehicle? Or dangerous becauese of the authorities?
There will always be rules no matter what one tries to do, and sticking to them is a good idea - as long as they make sense. If they don't make sense we must NOT comply with them. Millions of innocent jews were put to death in Germany in the 1940ies because people 'did what they are told to do' by their greater authorities.
Different orders of magnitude I would have thought.......... & a little off topic. Edited by user Friday, 29 June 2012 12:39:48 AM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
utility8
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
quote:
Originally posted by Utility8
quote:
Originally posted by Holden1Tonner
When you say dangerous: is this because you think it alters the behaviour of the vehicle? Or dangerous becauese of the authorities?
There will always be rules no matter what one tries to do, and sticking to them is a good idea - as long as they make sense. If they don't make sense we must NOT comply with them. Millions of innocent jews were put to death in Germany in the 1940ies because people 'did what they are told to do' by their greater authorities.
Different orders of magnitude I would have thought.......... & a little off topic.
... but in the essence the exact same behaviour. I do agree though that these are different orders of magnitude. I do not want to be on the road illegaly and will do everything reasonable to get these wheels sorted out properly. So there must be an easy and reasonably simple way to get a compliance or something. A lot of people drive around with 10" wide wheels - I have not yet mounted any on the HQ and I hope they will not look too offending! Thank you for your replies! |
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,686
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 479 post(s)
|
I would just aim for 15x7 front and 15x8 rear. This isn't all that hard to get passed as 14x7 was a standard or optional wheel size in HJ-HZ (option PE1, but not on commercials, standard on HX LE coupe) and WB had 15x7 as standard on Caprice. So prety achieveable with the right offset and Engineer, and also the right tyre size. |
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6,053
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 200 time(s) in 182 post(s)
|
Spot on.
Forget about 10-inch on the rear unless you can find rims with suitable backspace (offset) which will keep the track within the legal limit.
As Byron has said, you could get away with 7-inch & 8-inch without too much drama.
Honestly I think you're problem these days would be getting tyres to suit, especially in 14-inch diameter.
Dr Terry |
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0 |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
Thanks guys for your replies,
I am only thinking about 15 inch rims - no 14". There are many tires that go on a 15x10 rim. I will check if the offset changes with the new rims and then will make a decision.
I'm still unsure what I need to do when mounted - do I have to get a compliance plate?
|
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,686
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 479 post(s)
|
You'll need it Engineered, and State dependant may require a mod plate. I think you'll find a 10" rear wheel set up with factory track will hit the leaf springs. I had some 15x8.5 USracers with 275/60/15 tyres on teh back of a tonner I had here once, and they were huge. Looked like tractor tyres! The mags were pretty big dish and the tyres were not that far away from the springs. |
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
Thanks for this reply. I don't think though it makes a big difference since the width is defined by the 275/60/15 tyre. That tyre is 275 mm wide. It doesn't matter if this tyre is fitted on a 8" rim (which is 203 mm wide) or 10" rim (which is 254 mm wide). It would only become a problem if it was a 15x11" rim as now the rim is wider than the tyre (tyre 275mm, rim 280 mm).
Does anyone disagree with these numbers?
A good starting point for matching a rim to a tyre is to make them the same width, i.e. 275/25.4=10.8" which is roughly a 11" rim. For motorsports that's the rim size you would choose.
You can fit a 275/60/15 tyre on a 7" wheel without too much hassle. Again the width of the wheel (tyre plus rim) is still the same.
Fitting a 275/60/15 tyre on a 10" rim will require a little higher tyre pressures as compared to fitting them on a 7" rim.
There is little difference between a 7", 8", 9" or 10" rim as the tyre defines the width...
|
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,686
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 479 post(s)
|
My point was these 8.5" rims were not legal track (deep dish), and if they were they'd probably foul the springs. |
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
Thank you for your reply! I'm unsure what the wheel offset for a 1972 Holden HQ is. Different sources give me different values. For instance, http://www.uniquecarsandparts.c...nical_specifications.htmspecifies that the offset is 16.5mm, whereas http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Stud_Patternsspecifies an offset of 30mm. I'm not sure if these offsets are negative or positive, I keep reading that Holden's had negative offset wheels. This is the type of rim I was thinking about: Ridler Model: Draglite Size: 15x10. Boltpattern: 5x4.75 (5x120.65 ) Offset: -44. Backspacing: 3.77 I have seen these rims fitted onto HQ's. I would like to calculate the change in track, but which one is the correct dimension? 44-30.0 = 0.6" difference to original 44-16.5 = 1.1" difference to original 44+30.0 = 2.9" difference to original 44+16.5 = 2.4" difference to original which one is it? |
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered
Joined: 25/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,122
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 17 post(s)
|
I think the point is that it doesn't matter how technical you get, if the offset was set inwards enough to make the track legal on a 10" rim, it would hit the leaf springs.
One toners do look tough with massive tyres on the back though! Wouldn't like too drive one in the wet though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Registered, Veteran
Joined: 3/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,902
|
with the 15 x 10's the most backspace you will get on a HQ-WB tonner is 4.7/8 inches, maybe 5 inches if its got a 295 tyre. |
Old holdens brought on the spot, quick decision, cash paid. |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Registered
Joined: 28/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 61
|
Gent I've got some more information on this topic.
QUEENSLAND RULES:
- No limits on rim diameter.
- Tyre overall diameter must not exceed 15mm greater than the largest optional tyre for vehicle model
-> Holden HQ largest wheels/tires were 6.0JJ x 14, equivalent is 185/75/14 (height 24.9") so largest legal diameter is 25.52"
- Tyre and rim width must not be greater than 1.3 times the widest optional tyre and rim for vehicle model. So in the case of a HQ you can go to a 8JJ 17" rim and 245/40 17" tyre. This applies to all Qld passenger cars (except 4WD) regardless of age.
- It is illegal to remove a tyre placard but you cannot be fined for not having one if the placard is no longer available as a spare part from the original vehicle manufacturer. It is a sticker and stickers crack and peel off with age.
So I'm planning to go with a 15x8 rim in the front, with a 215/60 tire and a 15x10 rim in the back with a 265/50 tire. This will preserve the diameter requirement and all I have to do is to get the rear +20 mm width engineered...
|
"I killed the Bank"
Andrew Jackson, last words |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 6,053
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 200 time(s) in 182 post(s)
|
quote:
Originally posted by Holden1Tonner
Gent I've got some more information on this topic.
QUEENSLAND RULES:
- No limits on rim diameter.
- Tyre overall diameter must not exceed 15mm greater than the largest optional tyre for vehicle model
-> Holden HQ largest wheels/tires were 6.0JJ x 14, equivalent is 185/75/14 (height 24.9") so largest legal diameter is 25.52"
- Tyre and rim width must not be greater than 1.3 times the widest optional tyre and rim for vehicle model. So in the case of a HQ you can go to a 8JJ 17" rim and 245/40 17" tyre. This applies to all Qld passenger cars (except 4WD) regardless of age.
- It is illegal to remove a tyre placard but you cannot be fined for not having one if the placard is no longer available as a spare part from the original vehicle manufacturer. It is a sticker and stickers crack and peel off with age.
So I'm planning to go with a 15x8 rim in the front, with a 215/60 tire and a 15x10 rim in the back with a 265/50 tire. This will preserve the diameter requirement and all I have to do is to get the rear +20 mm width engineered...
What are Qld's rules on the track increase, they will be there somewhere ? Dr Terry |
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0 |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Veteran
Groups: Moderator, Registered, Veteran
Joined: 1/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 14,686
Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 502 time(s) in 479 post(s)
|
I goback to my original comment on 8" rims on the front of a HQ. |
_______________________________________________________
If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords? |
|
|
|
|
|
Fastlane
»
Holden Forums
»
Holden Technical Talk
»
Wheels HQ: 15"x8" front and 15"x10" rear
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
