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Devo Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 12 December 2015 6:41:45 PM(UTC)
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Hi all.
As happens sometimes my project is going a bit deeper than planned. A quick block back repaint and drive has now turned into a bit of a restoration. Little things that aren't right niggle me so I was kidding to think I'd be happy with an average driver.
Car is a Kashmire white 308 gts monaro with black trim. So far it's broken down with items being sorted for powder coating,zinc coating and chrome. While I do the stainless.
This week coming I'm having the car blasted . Inside, underneath, boot, engine bay and hanging panels with just the large outer panels left for me to chemical strip( avoid distortion) it will be epoxy primed and return for some rust repairs. Nothing to bad and I'm not expecting anything crazy after blasting but will see....

Now my question in regards to paint colour/finish from factory.

1#What is the underside painted in ( I'm guessing warrigal black)
2#What about inside. Is it in body colour or left in primer ?
3#Boot I guess is warrigal black also.
4#Fire wall I understand to be same in gloss with the inner guards/subframe a more satin finish.
5#dash board is satin on top/gloss under I believe

Can anyone advise if I'm on the right path. And what paint products I should be sourcing to achieve this.

Thanks in advance

Cheers
gm5735 Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, 16 December 2015 11:30:32 AM(UTC)
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It depends on how far you want to go with the car, but the factory finish is this:

1/ Black etch primer over all the bare steel on the entire body shell.
2/ Red oxide primer over the black etch
3/ Body colour acrylic lacquer over the red oxide
4/ Black primer (375-1690) or black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the undersides of the wheelhouses, and mostly the underside of the car.
5/ Black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the firewall - except for GTS and Brougham and maybe Premier
6/ Black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the front subframe,
7/ Black acrylic lacquer (599-5285) on the front fender undersides,
8/ Warrigal Black acrylic lacquer in the engine compartment and firewall for GTS, Brougham and maybe Premier.
This lacquer is gloss by definition, but was baked and not buffed, which is why the finish can vary in gloss level so much.

Body deadener was applied to the wheelhousing section of the front fenders (and not the subframe),
the rear wheelhouses, the floor section outboard of the rear "chassis" rails as far as the beaver panel, and the underside of the spare wheel housing.
Seam sealer was used on all of the floor pan section joins inside the car, in the seam areas around the rear inner wheelhouse panels, to fill up the tooling and drain holes in the floor pans, in the floor pan to sill joins, in the floor areas under the rear quarter windows (Monaro, obviously), and in quite a few other areas. The caulking compound used for the inside joins was GMH part number 7425347, also known as Elastite, full of asbestos, and obviously no longer available. Likewise, true Red oxide primer is full of lead, and also unlikely to be available anymore.

Note that some of this detail varied from plant to plant, and from car to car. For example, not all cars have the black colour on the underside of the floorpan. Your best guide is what was actually on your car.

The top surface of the dash is done in (assuming black is your colour) Dulux Dulon Suede black, 563-6912 (to prevent reflections on the windscreen) and the remainder of the dash in (I think) 578-0990 Low gloss black.

Note that I don't think the underside of the vehicle is Warrigal black, although you will get other opinions. The engine bay inner fenders, firewall, and some of the front section of the tunnel is. There is a lot of variation in the gloss level on original cars, as the paint was applied fairly wet and baked, but not cut or buffed.

As far as substitutes go, if you prime properly prepared bright metal in a good 2 pack you could delete the etch primer. Protec make a 2 pack Zinc Phosphate epoxy primer known as EX-408, which can be had in a red lead colour and which approximates the original red oxide colour. It is a fairly mild 2 pack, and does not contain iso-cyanates, so can be sprayed at home with a respirator.
My choice when using this is to scuff it up and go over the top of it with black acrylic primer, followed by acrylic paint for final colours. This gives the same colour paint layers as factory, with the exception of the black etch.

You can delete the scuffing step if you want to go all 2 pack, which is a better coating but to me just doesn't look the same.
Whatever else you do, talk to a reputable paint supplier and get a compatible primer/filler/topcoat system.

You will also find widely varying opinions on the virtues of sandblasting, and the skill levels of various operators. My personal preference is not to use it and do it the hard way, mostly because of the amount of sand left in the body shell to be discovered while you are painting, and in years to come.

Good luck.

Edited by user Wednesday, 16 December 2015 11:32:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

 1 user thanked gm5735 for this useful post.
Ausjacko on 16/12/2015(UTC)
Devo Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, 17 December 2015 3:45:33 PM(UTC)
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That's great thanks. I have chosen blasting for the intricate areas( underside,boot, inside, panel edges) purely as these would be difficult to strip. All flat panel areas or basically visible outside sections will be stripped.
I understand that most products are no longer used. This is not a concourse build or anything so I'm going for what looks true to original in that if the shell was painted but bare . You would see correct colour throughout. I am going for DP40 epoxy on the bare blasted metal. From there it would be good to match a red oxide primer/filler then on to a top coat as you describe.
Does the inside floor area remain the red oxide or is it too coated also.?

Thanks for the info

Cheers
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, 17 December 2015 4:02:18 PM(UTC)
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All the cars I've seen have the red oxide everywhere as it is applied electrostatically, with overspray over it. Normally there is black goo under the red oxide down low as the bodies were dipped. If you've ever tried to clean up an Dandenong body tag on a you'll know the black goo i'm talking about.
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Devo Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, 17 December 2015 8:06:33 PM(UTC)
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Mines a Dandenong build . I think I know the black stuff. My floor has been primed over it some time back but I'm taking right back to be sure.

So in my car under the carpet would you expect to see red oxide everywhere but with white overspray along sills, windows, door jams etc.
Would up under the dash remain red oxide also? Looking at mine under the dash it looks original and a reddish colour.

Cheers
HK1837 Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, 17 December 2015 8:18:11 PM(UTC)
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Yes. Red oxide goes everywhere, it was applied with a charge on the body and it got everywhere.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Devo Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 17 December 2015 8:29:56 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for that. I'm to stay true to original where I can so this all helps .
Devo Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, 4 January 2016 6:31:09 PM(UTC)
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Ok there does not seem to be a suitable primer/sealer to go over my DP40 in a red oxide so may have to make it a top coat instead of primer.

Just some more detail detail question.
1# If I paint the floor in this red oxide. Does it continue up under the dash or is there some black applied at the carpet edge to neaten up the view of this area.?

2# is the inward facing surface of the doors (under trim)painted with the red oxide( plus top coat overspray) or are they painted in the top coat.

3# what is the inside of the doors/cavities painted in( red oxide/black ) ??

Cheers
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, 4 January 2016 7:49:44 PM(UTC)
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As I said, the body was applied with a charge and the red oxide had the opposite. When it sprayed it went EVERYWHERE - magnetic attraction (or actually electrostatic attraction).

From memory (haven't pulled one apart in original condition for over 10 years) the carpet goes up near to the floor to firewall join, and the firewall had insulation over it covered in a black product. This should cover the red oxide. Others will chime in if my memory has failed me.

I may have an original HK door in the shed - i'll check for how far the topcoat goes. The Silver Mink GTS I sold 18 months ago was all original, but it has now gone so can't check it. I think I have an original bootlid in the shed too, and it is all body colour underneath.

From memory the doors were sprayed with deadener or it is black goo from the body dip all inside them, like the inside of the quarters.

Edited by user Monday, 4 January 2016 7:55:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
Ausjacko Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, 4 January 2016 10:09:52 PM(UTC)
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My car ('69 HT) has the red oxide up under the dash, including where the kick panels go, and completely covering the rest of the interior floorpan and panels as HK1837 described. Having spent 'quality time' under the dash recently, I am familiar with this area (and why I hate working under there). Some sections of the firewall (interior side) have black overspray on them that I suspect came from when the dash was sprayed black. No sign of black along the carpet line as asked about but for some reason there is more overspray in the top corner of the passenger side footwell, around where the drain tube is. Perhaps it was a fav spot for the guy on the assembly line or he sneezed and voer-shot ;-)
Hope that helps.
Gerard Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, 4 January 2016 10:23:11 PM(UTC)
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Have attached some photos of the dash/firewall area of my car (HK Monaro) when it was dismantled a few years ago. Hope these might help

Gerard











Edited by user Monday, 4 January 2016 10:25:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

Devo Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, 5 January 2016 3:37:27 PM(UTC)
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That's great guys thanks. I might sound a bit stupid chasing this little stuff but if the difference between a nice restored car and a nice accurately restored car is just a few extra questions I think it's worth it.

Cheers
Ausjacko Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, 5 January 2016 4:49:04 PM(UTC)
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Gerard, those photos look very similar to the ones I have from my dash area. Could have been painted by the same guy in Sydney
Gerard Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, 5 January 2016 6:14:07 PM(UTC)
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Ausjacko

My car was made in Brisbane, seems that the process must have been much the same. I have owned the car a long time and until I pulled it apart this time, removing everything from the interior I had never noticed that the factory finish of the paint work on the face of the dash was pretty average, especially below the glove box opening. Probably due to the amount of black trim in this car this never stood out to me then, also wasn't looking at the car in the detail of today..
Gerard Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, 5 January 2016 10:22:46 PM(UTC)
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Have added some additional photos of under dash area which may be of use










Devo Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, 6 January 2016 5:56:11 PM(UTC)
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That's great. Thanks. I have a good picture now of how I should spray it. Had another look and I think PPG dextron do actually do a red oxide primer that is compatible to my Dp40 so in a nut shell I'm thinking

Dp40 epoxy over blasted bare metal
Repair as required and re apply DP40 as needed.
Fit gap panels.
Panel beat/light filler as required.
Polyester filler block back
Primer/sealer
Topcoat outer panels jams etc.

Sounds easy when you write it down.....
gm5735 Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, 9 January 2016 11:36:14 AM(UTC)
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Is this the black goo you are talking about Byron?

(From Gerard's photographs above)

http://s393.photobucket....111_zpssfsemdlw.jpg.html

Edited by user Saturday, 9 January 2016 11:40:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Devo Offline
#18 Posted : Friday, 18 November 2016 9:07:41 PM(UTC)
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Hi all. Thought I'd resurrect this one again.
I have a good grasp of the paint codes used etc but as old school acrylics have a different finish to modern paints. What would best replicate a factory finish on the following.
Engine bay firewall ( Gloss)???
Inner subframe ( satin or gloss )
Booster ??
Diff ??
Any help with what finish the black areas have that's close to factory would be great.

Cheers.
RigPig Offline
#19 Posted : Monday, 28 November 2016 10:29:25 AM(UTC)
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Dandenong GTS firewall was warrigal gloss down to the floor seam. Painted when the subframe was painted. Dandenong only.

Subframe areas under the bonnet and the front panel was warrigal gloss.
Subframe under wheel wells is/was flat black etch primer.
Subframe legs were underbody paint.
Its up to you how closely you want to follow the crappy factory paint job.

Radiator support is warrigal gloss.

Booster was a low gloss satin black and the booster and master were painted while bolted together.
Nuts and washers were bare metal and painted, not zinc plated.
A true black painted by PBR its not the smokey GMH black.

Diff, springs, front crossmember are a bit less than a semi-gloss, I'd call it satin or somewhere between.
Just flatten that Dulon Subframe Semigloss I PM'd you about.

These details will suit a Dandenong car, Adelaide was very different and I'm not sure about Sydney cars.
Devo Offline
#20 Posted : Monday, 28 November 2016 4:58:06 PM(UTC)
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That's great mate thanks. I want to get as much of the little stuff right as I can.
Appreciate it.
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