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Originally Posted by: castellan  [quote=wbute;180027]I........................
Due to the Jap currency jumping up with the Nissan 3.0L 6 cyl in the VL. Holden had to jump to that USA chaff cutter V6 what a shocking noisy engine it was, Hell even the Red motors were more refined than that junk.
ummm... wrong way round! The VL was due to get the US based V6 but GMH were running behind in development (mainly coz the V6 was originally an 'East West' Engine) and so Holden needed an engine for VL quick smart! The Fishermens Bend Supply guys were given mission impossible.... find an engine that did this/did that/complied with our new soon to be Unleaded petrol ADRs and do IT NOW! So the engineering guys can do their bit. All this as VL body design was being signed off mid 84.... The Nissan engine turned out so well (*head gasket issues aside) , that it was slated to go into VN . But yes, the Pacific Peso (aka the Aussie $) went south against the Yen and an original $1800 engine (as originally costed) was costing GMH over $3,000 per car! The deal (to buy Nissan engines) should have been done in $USD but Nissan insisted it be in Yen. Normally... not an issue, until the AUD$ became the overpriced in Forex markets. And sank .... Edited by user Sunday, 18 April 2021 6:08:12 PM(UTC)
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In my opinion, I think the Buick V6 suited the VN. Yes the RB30 was smooth, but low end power wasn't its strong point...neither was that Jatco 4 speed auto. The V6 had a lot more low end torque than the RB30 and from also a maintenance point of view a self adjusting serpentine belt and no more distributor. No more flat spots unlike the fiddly ignition on RB30...
The VN 3.8 litre V6 gave a marketing advantage against the EA's 3.9 litre -even the optional multi-point version didn't even have a 'Get up and Go' of the VN V6.
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Originally Posted by: Shearer In my opinion, I think the Buick V6 suited the VN. Yes the RB30 was smooth, but low end power wasn't its strong point...neither was that Jatco 4 speed auto. The V6 had a lot more low end torque than the RB30 and from also a maintenance point of view a self adjusting serpentine belt and no more distributor. No more flat spots unlike the fiddly ignition on RB30...
The VN 3.8 litre V6 gave a marketing advantage against the EA's 3.9 litre -even the optional multi-point version didn't even have a 'Get up and Go' of the VN V6. It's just the noise of the first V6 that was really shocking and also in VN-P-R and that turned a lot of people against Holden's claiming that they were all just shocking harsh built backwards crap. The metrosexuals all moved away form Holden's and started ranting about their Hondas and other Jap cars as being so much better  their love of little 4 cyl oh they are so good they say, but when I mentioned the V8's well metrosexuals mainly fear to go their. they are obsessed with other things than such performance. many do not values such performance. When I talk to such they don't fathom were I am coming from at all the concept of V8's does not click in their world so when mentioning a VN they think only of the V6 and I say I am not talking about the V6 at all, I am Talking about V8's ! such is out of their league. truly ! I am not interested in anything other than V8's and all 4 cyl and 6 cyl are just shit to me, such is nothing that I would want to drive myself or would love to drive. Oh oh I just driven a 4cyl car, let me tell you about it      Ok the EA 3.9L 5sp was a good performing car in it's day and I would have that over a VN V6 5sp any day. but the EA 3SP auto was a total shit to endure, right from when you drove off in it you were thinking F off this is shit to drive such a thing, same with the VN V6 but only due to the chaff cutter noise that was embarrassing. If you pulled up in a VN V8 and took a metrosexual for a spin, they would not bag such a car.
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I don’t believe they are a Buick motor if they were built by GMH in Australia are they? Is the Toyota 6 cylinder a Chev because it was based on a Chev design?
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I think Buick design is a better term. Like a 307 in a HK is a SBC design not a Chevrolet engine as it wasn’t built by Chevrolet. |
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I believe that the early V6 blocks & heads were imported from the USA, probably cast by GM-Powertrain. But a HK has said Buick design is a better term.
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I never heard anyone call it a “Buick” engine until a couple of years ago. Now it’s on trend to call all V6 engines a Buick motor. Yet I have never heard anyone call a Rover V8 a Buick engine, which it most definitely was originally.
Just annoys me.
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Originally Posted by: wbute I don’t believe they are a Buick motor if they were built by GMH in Australia are they? Is the Toyota 6 cylinder a Chev because it was based on a Chev design? Holden imported the V6 engines for first use in VNs from Buick in the USA (due to lack of time to tool up) and then had duplicate tooling of what Buick used, sent out to allow manufacture here at Fishermens Bend. Says to me they are Buick V6s |
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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Originally Posted by: wbute I don’t believe they are a Buick motor if they were built by GMH in Australia are they? Is the Toyota 6 cylinder a Chev because it was based on a Chev design? Holden imported the V6 engines for first use in VNs from Buick in the USA (due to lack of time to tool up) and then had duplicate tooling of what Buick used, sent out to allow manufacture here at Fishermens Bend. Says to me they are Buick V6s Maybe then first V6 chaffcutters were a Buick imported engine. Then we got another V6 upgrade in the VN that was quieter than the first and I do believe that the bolt paten in the intake valley is different ? from what I think I read in a open wheeler racing about such, I would have to fine the book about it, may be 20 years ago that I read that, not to mention some other differences with our V6, they were trying to swap parts and they just did not fit. The Buick V6 has been around from 1970's I think, so many changes would of been made during them times to our VN V6.
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The Buick V6 & the Buick/Rover V8 were all part of the same family & date from the early 1960s (1960 for the V8 & 1962 for the V6).
GM sold the V8 design to Rover in the mid 60s & the V6 design to Jeep (pre-AMC) around 1967, them bought it back off AMC in the late 70s.
The V6 had has several refreshes in its lifetime. Just before we got it in the VN, a balance shaft was added, then we got the EcoTec update in the 1995, for the VS.
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Just reading about them, it very much parallels the SBC design. Originally designed for Buick application in the early 60’s it was later used for other GM platforms like Pontiac, Olds etc. The SBC was the same, used by Pontiac, Studebaker, Ramsay, GMH etc. it probably was no different to the GM Powertrain V8 often called a GenII SBC design engine, mid VN the engine would have been manufactured by GM Powertrain just like the gearboxes. |
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Originally Posted by: castellan Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Originally Posted by: wbute I don’t believe they are a Buick motor if they were built by GMH in Australia are they? Is the Toyota 6 cylinder a Chev because it was based on a Chev design? Holden imported the V6 engines for first use in VNs from Buick in the USA (due to lack of time to tool up) and then had duplicate tooling of what Buick used, sent out to allow manufacture here at Fishermens Bend. Says to me they are Buick V6s Maybe then first V6 chaffcutters were a Buick imported engine. Then we got another V6 upgrade in the VN that was quieter than the first and I do believe that the bolt paten in the intake valley is different ? from what I think I read in a open wheeler racing about such, I would have to fine the book about it, may be 20 years ago that I read that, not to mention some other differences with our V6, they were trying to swap parts and they just did not fit. The Buick V6 has been around from 1970's I think, so many changes would of been made during them times to our VN V6. There where two revision to the V6 during the VN production run; first was around September '89 and the commonly known 'VP motor' update in November '90. This update has thermostat at the front of the motor unlike the previous version which is under the throttle body -more suitable for a FWD layout. Somewhere on my hard drive a actually have the dates and changes occurred. This later manifold does fit the earlier motor, the only modification is a breather hole drilled in each head. I did this to my own VN when I rebuilt the engine. I've played with a few of these Buick V6s, but still don't know when Australia production occurred.. educated guess would be VN's updated VP motor?
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According to this the VN engine was an LN3 and the VNII was an L27. Not sure if you can always believe everything in Wiki though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine
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Originally Posted by: Dr Terry The Buick V6 & the Buick/Rover V8 were all part of the same family & date from the early 1960s (1960 for the V8 & 1962 for the V6).
GM sold the V8 design to Rover in the mid 60s & the V6 design to Jeep (pre-AMC) around 1967, them bought it back off AMC in the late 70s.
The V6 had has several refreshes in its lifetime. Just before we got it in the VN, a balance shaft was added, then we got the EcoTec update in the 1995, for the VS.
Dr Terry The Rovef V8 was never referred to as a Buick engine, even though it is as Buick as our Holden V6.
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Originally Posted by: wbute
The Rovef V8 was never referred to as a Buick engine, even though it is as Buick as our Holden V6.
In England during the 60s it was well known & often referred to as the Buick V8. Even the models it was fitted to (Rover P5B & P6B) have B in the model code to denote the Buick engine. This has disappeared over time though. It's probably a bit less 'Buick' than our V6 though, AFAIK the Rover version was built entirely by Rover. Dr Terry Edited by user Wednesday, 21 April 2021 10:06:31 AM(UTC)
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Reading further in that Wiki link, we got the revised "Series 1" L27 3800 mid VN but in Australia it retained the old LN3 one piece intake/plenum. I assume Holden did this to keep a lot of parts common with the earlier VN engine? Doe sthis hint that the earlier engine in VN was mostly imported but the later ones were built here? Or is it not that simple! |
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Originally Posted by: Shearer
There where two revision to the V6 during the VN production run; first was around September '89 and the commonly known 'VP motor' update in November '90. This update has thermostat at the front of the motor unlike the previous version which is under the throttle body -more suitable for a FWD layout. Somewhere on my hard drive a actually have the dates and changes occurred.
Yeah there were 2 revisions of the V6 in VN. VN Series 2 (XX8) saw the first upgrade. It came into production in late 1989. Most of the changes were internal, they still looked the same. The only change externally was that they added an overflow bottle to catch coolant from the pressure cap on the surge tank, so there were 2 coolant 'bottles'. The VP (L27) motor came into production 13 Nov 1990 , half way thru VN Series 2. This is where they cleaned up the whole coolant system plumbing & relocated the thermostat to the front. Dr Terry |
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I wonder how the first series VN V6 headed system lasted before Holden put the cast iron ones on them.
That open wheeler V6 I still have not found the book but the V6 they were talking about must of been the 4th generation of the V6 in the USA and ours is the 5th generation in the VN.
I remember my VS V6 5sp sitting on the highway over 140km/h to 160km/h the air-con would cut out, that pissed me off. the computer cuts out the air-con when it drops below a set vacuum reading, this was to give more response in overtaking, so it happens automatically, that's fine. tho it should not of been linked to top gear. my wife's VS V6 auto did the same cut out thing, most would not even know such takes place. but when I got the VS V8 it did not have that function so you could drive flat out and the air-con still worked regardless. the Same with my VY SS.
The car I have now I press the air-con button off before I over take.
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Haha, yes. The little over-pressurised tiny diesels pumping out crazy torque figures that can supposedly tow 3500kg. Like hell they can. Can’t hold the speed limit up hills and if the aircon is on they go even slower! |
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Originally Posted by: castellan I.............................. when I got the VS V8 it did not have that function so you could drive flat out and the air-con still worked regardless. the Same with my VY SS.
you have obviously never exceeded 4500rpm in either vehicle  My VN V8 berlina and VR SS and VS HSV Improved V8 Berlina and my VX and VZ SS Commodores.. all had the one same factory redeeming feature! Exceed 4500 rpm .... in ANY gear (all were manual vehicles) and irrespective of speed the aircon turns off My 2 VE Clubsports and current VF Clubsport... ditto great factory feature ! Edited by user Thursday, 22 April 2021 8:02:47 PM(UTC)
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