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GP351 Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, 1 June 2024 8:23:38 PM(UTC)
GP351

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I am rebuilding a HK Monaro silver mink GTS with 307 and powerglide. Having all sorts of dramas trying to get info which seems odd as they are a fairly common car. Its a Adelaide build, has a different coloured firewall, under dash and boot it is a grey colour, NOT black which everyone likes to tell you. Problem I have now is finding correct bolts for front guards, I have bought a set, and bolt is a standard looking silver zinc with 3 raised notches (grade 5) and split and flat washers are silver zinc as well. Watched a YouTube video yesterday and guy reckoned split washer should be a copper colour. I have a couple of old wrecks of hk,t,g and washers are either painted or rusted. What I did notice was HK bolts were flat top. The HT and HG bodies I have bolts are recessed top like what they sell for HQ type guards?.
HK1837 Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 3 June 2024 6:53:16 AM(UTC)
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HK GTS were supposed to be off gun gloss Warrigal Black under the bonnet but some turn up (Elizabeth bodied from memory) with slush black firewall. The grey you mention will just be slush black, it's just a mix of old paint which formed a colour resembling black and was unused in unseen areas including under the bonnet of Belmont, Kingswood, Monaro and Premier. GTS and Brougham were meant to be Warrigal though.
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GP351 Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, 3 June 2024 11:37:32 AM(UTC)
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You are right it seemed to be the Elizibeth Adelaide plant that did the different paint mix. Some say it was to use up all the paint leftovers up. I had everyone say I was stupid saying it was factory paint and it did not look anything like black. Local guy at Auto One who is right into Holdens said he has seen the different coloured firewall a few times and like many just thought the cars must have had a random respray. The inner guards are like you say sprayed Warrigal black for GTS anyway. Base model are supposed to be matt or satin black so are they just GMH chassis black?.
HK1837 Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, 3 June 2024 12:48:03 PM(UTC)
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Just slops black on Belmont, Kingswood, Monaro and Premier.

Remember the Elizabeth BAP made bodies for the Elizabeth VAP but also for Mosman Park VAP. And they made van bodies for Dandenong and Pagewood VAP. The Elizabeth VAP also painted their front panels whereas the other sites with both a BAP and VAP the front panels were painted with the bodies in the BAP except where the body was imported from another BAP eg a Pagewood van. So the Elizabeth process was always going to be slightly different. There will always be anomalies too where a front frame in a GTS or GTS327 or Brougham ended up in slops rather than off-gun gloss.

Note all plants used the slops/slush black, and it varied depending upon what was in it. I’ve seen HK-HG where the firewall was a grey tinge and the front frame a green tinge. It all came down to what colours had been used and emptied out of spray guns and lines. Cars were painted in certain batches of colours too so sometimes there would be more yellow in the mix, other times more blue.

Edited by user Tuesday, 4 June 2024 8:08:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
GP351 Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, 3 June 2024 3:51:57 PM(UTC)
GP351

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Thanks for all the info. I am probably getting a bit too fussy here but, do you know much about the bolts that are used on front fenders?. I have had conflicting information about these and even looking at different hk,t,g's hard to tell what is factory, and they seem to vary from HK to the later HT and HG. I bought a bolt set off a reliable seller that says it is for early Monaro models, etc. Bolts look like any standard grade 5 silver zinc. The split and flat washers are also standard looking silver zinc bright and shiny. I saw a video restored Monaro and a guy said the split washers should be a copper colour??, which made little sense to me. I see the Rare Spares kits have a gold cad plated split washer which might be more like it?.
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#6 Posted : Monday, 3 June 2024 4:24:38 PM(UTC)
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I've never really cared what was on them. I'm not really into Concours restos. Survivor cars yes but again I've really ignored most cars that aren't from Pagewood as that is what interests me. Early Monaro won't be any different from mid-HK sedan/wagon so just find a last week of June (for Monaro) or first week of July (for GTS) 1968 sedan or wagon if you are interested in what an early Monaro or early GTS had on them. "Early" Monaro is really those June 1968 cars and "early GTS" are the July cars. Both changed a bit after that production in colours and drivelines. Even the sheetmetal changed in many areas, as did a fair bit of other stuff as they worked out easier ways to do things.

Edited by user Tuesday, 4 June 2024 8:09:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
kevrev Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, 4 June 2024 5:12:33 PM(UTC)
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There's a previous post on this forum regarding copper spring washers for guard bolts etc

https://www.fastlane.com...postsm169901_posts.aspx

GP351 Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, 4 June 2024 8:23:29 PM(UTC)
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Thanks kevrev. Just looked at that post. Jackpot.... real interesting to find more people saying the copper washers is a genuine Holden thing. As they also commented it could easily vary between the different Holden Plants due to what suppliers they were using in regards to the spring washers and what was on their shelves at the time.
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#9 Posted : Wednesday, 5 June 2024 7:04:55 AM(UTC)
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They'll probably be all the same across assembly plants and mostly come from the one source. The VAP's didn't store stuff as much as you'd think. Most gear was sent there according to the schedule. There was a mechanical pack from Fishermans bend and a body pack for each car from Woodville. Just like if it was a CKD car going to NZ or South Africa. Parts were sourced in volume from suppliers, however I believe some stuff may have been locally sourced close to the assembly locations like paint. It is possible body bolts may have been the same. There will be variations between body plants and assembly plants in the way the bodies and then the cars went together, for example the spot welds and the trim (trim all came from one source but was stitched together at the assembly locations).
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
GP351 Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, 5 June 2024 8:17:50 PM(UTC)
GP351

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What I cannot get my head around is why copper, or copper coated split washers to hold front guards on?. Could they have been use by accident?. Copper is a great heat and electrical conductor. Used on electrical fittings and of course wiring. Use in all the old school radiators. I really do not understand why it would get used on washers for guards???. Copper has never been cheap either, when compared to steel,etc. Really tempted to remove some rusty guard bolts and see if there is any copper on those washers, try and see it for myself.
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#11 Posted : Wednesday, 5 June 2024 8:49:42 PM(UTC)
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I think copper was used as a base for chrome. But it may have been because it was onto a painted surface? For corrosion reasons. The guards were painted before being bolted to the car.
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If we all had the same (good) taste, who would buy all the Fords?
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