Ok,so we all can concur that without his tags,going off the firewall number and that alone,dosent tell us it was an GTS 327 or 307 or whatever.

I remember a HT Bathurst like this for sale and turned away coz it had no tags.
I know there are other things unique to Bathurst cars to tell them apart but i guess he really does need those tags.

Thats why i went on about the firewall number because if it is unique,the record can say "yes,firewall number 12345 was one of our 327 specials" at least he could have that as proof that his car is genuine.

quote:

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Originally posted by HGGTS
I consider the small skinny tag to be the manufacturers serial number (call it vin if you must).

But the vehicles chassis number for id/rego purposes is definitely the number stamped on the firewall. I believe this chassis number was also on the compliance tag for HT/HG models.

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This confusion exists because the various state rego authorities (RTA etc.) now use the term VIN to describe what the rest of the world knows as the chassis number, yet the long skinny tag has the number that we know as the Holden VIN for the older cars.

As Warren has said the GM-H VIN system is well documented & has been around since the 60s.

I use the term VIN for the Holden VIN for these cars & the term chassis number for the firewall (or chassis on HQ-WB) stamping. The chassis number is also repeated on the ADR compliance plate for cars 1/1/70 onwards.

This confusion does not exist for Holdens VN onwards. The Holden VIN & chassis number are the same as part of the ISO-VIN system.

For HK etc. the body number is a separate number again & is only stamped on the body plate.

Dr Terry.

Not trying to muddy the waters but...

Very confusing as far as HK's go, I'm just a dumb old pensioner so please bear with me, lol.

I will use the numbers off my car as an example.

The firewall stamp is on the body but it is actually the chassis number and it is applied at the factory which made that body. eg, HK0471#B (no second B) which means that it is the 471#th HK body MADE at Brisbane. Nothing to say that it could not have ended up on a Perth car for example.

When it went down the production line at Brisbane the body (big) tag was fitted and the plant sequence number eg, HK569A-0359#B becomes the body number. Which makes it the 359#th HK ASSEMBLED at Brisbane. Confused yet? Hang on that's 1114 numbers different? Don't reckon they'd want to store a thousand bodies out in the backyard.

The skinny tag is installed at the same time as the big tag and it is 80569KH10504#. Which makes it the 504#st GMH vehicle of all types built at Brisbane since 1/1/1968.

You want more confusion? I have had the area around my firewall stamp back to bare metal and the second B was never stamped on it, so it must have missed the train and ended up on a Brisbane car.

So now we have 3 different numbers to identify that vehicle, no wonder I'm confused and now you want to call one of those numbers a VIN number, I thought that the term "VIN number" did not exist before 1/1/1970.

To top it all off the tags were stamped differently from one factory to another, so I can readily see why for HK's the firewall stamp is the only true identifier.

Edited by user Thursday, 9 June 2011 8:35:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Would that not rely upon the production records still being available.

To use my car again, I live in NSW but I wanted to find out it's original QLD number plate. QLD DOT records only go back so far, in this case 1992 was as far as they could look back.

Luckily for me the clerk who did the plate change in 1992 recorded the old plate details and luckily again the data operator who transferred the info from handwritten files to computer recorded the number also.

Edited by user Thursday, 9 June 2011 8:41:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

That explanation sounds good to me.

quote:

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Originally posted by wbute
OK, I may be wrong here but........ with the number stamped on the firewall that should mean that if anyone tries to use the tags on another car they should come up as stolen anyway? So if the tags have been reported to the police they should show up on revs as "currently under police investigation" and imposible to use anyway? The tags should now be of no value whatsoever? Dont they compare the firewall stamped number with the tag number when a blue slip is issued?
As far as I can see, if the tags are reported stolen and not recovered that Monaro now has to cease to exist, making reprinted plates impossible anyway.

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From what I gather so far this isn't the case. There isn't a single number on any of the plates that the RTA really give a crap about (apart from the build date). Therefore, reporting them stolen wont show anything on a REVS check as none of those numbers need to be punched in.

Dr Terry is spot on. BODY tags belong to the Body Assembly Plant. VIN tags were outsourced with the PSN already stamped. The Vehicle Assembly Plant added the first bit onto the VIN tag before the PSN (and on later VIN plates the last digit signifying the series), this is why the first and last bits are always misaligned. The ADR plates were stamped under the control of some government dept in Victoria and sent to the assembly plants.

Basically true. You can tell if they are NOT from the shell (that is where the Holden Monaro Register comes in handy), but it is hard to tell for certain that they do unless you have original books. Even those have been faked as evidenced in recent times.

Quite a few people are missing the point. These tags are what identifies a monaro body shell as being more or less valuable than another. eg a 327 gts is worth more than a base model 161. The way to truly identify one along with having all its required parts in place, is these tags. The people that know theses cars can usually tell if the tags have been removed or not and the fact that mine had not been made it rare in itself. I purchased my monaros all back in the mid to late 90's when they were not very popular or valuable. i never considered them to be something that i would ever make money out of and considering i never sold any of them when the ridiculous prices were around even tempting as it was, proves that they were more important to me than the money. In saying that i could never say never and if circumstances required then who knows. What has really hurt me the most is the fact that the person/s who did this to me are more than likely someone i know. For them to go to the trouble that they have and to try and decieve me and hide what they have done upsets me greatly. I would be having a whole lot less trouble accepting this had happened if the plates were gone and that was that. then i could believe that it could have been an opportunistic crime committed by just about anyone. But for the plates to have been taken and changed there are reasons that show it is entirely an inside job and involves people i once considered friends. I dont believe i will ever see my plates again i am more about finding someone to be accountable for their actions in one way or another.

Like rallystripes says, you know what the car is and unless you want to sell the car it's not going to be an issue. You have'nt lost the car and you never know your freinds may come clean with the tags happy that they got a stir out of you. Apart from all that if those tag numbers turn up on another car then you may have an issue...in the mean time let every one know those tag numbers so they will be easily recognised....all the best one way or another.