I have sent the photo Simon.

It also proved a point to myself that the front end was on the car when it was painted, this may have only been for BAP and VAP the same. But I remember no paint between the front end and the body when I pulled it apart.

As I was going off memory I did not say anything before, until I had proof.

Byron, there would be no reason for a different process at each plant. Ben's theory that a chassis nummber cannot be painted over is not correct, as if this was the case ALL plants would have to be the same.

The car in question here has a build sheet attached to it, so was probably a 1969 vehicle.

When you see an HB Torana chassis number you will see what happens when you stamp a number into a painted surface, and I am afraid they are nothing like an HK to HG or even a Sydney HQ.

If Simon knows how, I do not, maybe he can post up the pic.

Warren

Now on the firewall stamping side of things I think this one shows that at least with HR's from Perth
that the P was stamped later.



it is also interesting to see on this more weathered car that the other letters are rusting but not as much as the P.

Edited by user Monday, 26 September 2011 4:34:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

while on the painting side of things this shows a car that must be being completed at this plant and what it had on it at paint time.



where as this I assume shows cars that were to be completed elsewhere



So painted without front chassis attached. (at least on the HK's not the torries)

Cheers Paul.

Edited by user Monday, 26 September 2011 4:49:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thanks for sharing these great pics hqss.

I thought I would share this scan relevant to your 'dipping' photo.

The picture of the HK Monaro in the air is from the Adelaide or Brisbane plant, as these were the only plants to assemble HB bodies.

I am yet to find a Sydney or Melbourne body in HK that was sent to another plant for final assembly.

So my thoughts are Adelaide painted their bodies without the front on and Melbourne and Sydney did, as they were all sent straight onto the vehicle assembly plant.

After talking to Simon, who is based in Adelaide and sees nearly exclusivly Adelaide cars, he has failed to see HKs with a second A. So might I suggest that Adelaide only stamped the second letter on cars they did not complete. This being stamped after the body was painted. Hence the P on the HR being like the HB Chassis numbers I have seen.

As I have already stated the second S was stamped before painting.

I am also yet to see an HK, from any plant, with the chassis number looking like the P on the HR.

The HBs look worse possibly because such a big stamp is used, rather than just one letter.

Warren

Warren, not sure if you noticed but the photo you supplied of the body shows two 'M's stamped one above the other.

and here is a similar one I have.

awesome pics not the blue hk monaro on the fork is missing the boot GTS badge, is it possible that car is a export knock down or goin to perth??? would of been a lot of trouble to match the matellic paint body to guards???

That Dandenong HK photo proves that Dandenong stamped their firewall before it was put on the car. If you look at Dandenong chassis numbers they are always very lightly pressed, and the metal around them is not affected plus they are always aligned which means they were stamped when the firewall was horizontal and had something behind it. Pagewood, Elizabeth and Acacia Ridge are very different. On many of the stamps from these 2 x plants a letter or number often drops due to the air tool being used being held vertically whilst the number is stamped. Plus they were given an almighty whack by the metal distortion around the numbers.

I disagree with the second S being stamped before paint Warren, it was stamped by the VAP and on all my Pagewood cars with original paint on the firewall it is stamped after paint.

That blue HK doesn't have its GTS badge probably as the stripes are not painted on yet. This is probably as good evidence as you'll get as to how Elizabeth vehicles were made.

I did have a talk to Ben about this when I was asking him about another matter. He may have a read and put up some ideas here too.

I'm pretty sure Pagewood may have fitted the front subframe before paint at least to GTS's. The reason I say this is GTS's have a gloss firewall. On both my Yellow GTS327 and my mate's Yellow 307 GTS they had no paint between the subframe and the firewall and the chassis number was placed there after paint. All the paint appeared to be done in one go. Other Pagewood cars I have seen have been similar, and they seem to rust in the same place as Dandenong cars. As Simon says the Elizabeth cars are painted separately for front and body and bolted together hence don't rust as bad in that area. One thing Ben reminded me of is South African SUP HT Monaros were all Pagewood assembled and these have body colour boot and engine bay so these probably also had the subframe on when painted. Maybe it was only Monaros done this way at Pagewood? Special Monaro shifts?

A lot of conjecture here but I,m sure that a manufacturing plant the size of this operation would have a set process to follow that may been different from plant to plant but would be set for that plant or assembly line process.and leaving no room for adhoc stampings or guess work. At the same time there is always the occasional error at the time of assemby that will result in guess work 40 years later amongst the likes of fastlane forums. Bob has the scientific side sorted. The area that was stamped would be changed and different to that surrounding it. The structure of the steel has been altered and the steel at the stamp has been exposed where as the area around it has a natural coating to it, and would therefore be less susceptible to oxidisation ie rusting and that the properties of the paint to follow would have changed and the protection different and the rust would therefore show up 1st at the stamp. Could I offer this scenario. Allowing for the occational error. All stamping to the panel was done at the original plant and in the case of HK-T-G at least, the 1st letter following the number indicated that ORIGINAL PLANT and where that car originally came FROM AND the 2nd letter indicated where that partly assembled car had to GO TO or be sent for the final assembly and the 2nd letter was therefor a quick reference with a SIMPLE inspection of the firewall with the second letter indicating where that body was to be shipped whether that be just up the road as in the case of Sydney or to another state altogether. The different configuration of the 2 letters ie in a line or 1 letter above maybe another simple indication to what section of a plant ie suitable for 6 or 8 cylinder or an indication of a particular floorpan and to NOW which assembly line at that particular plant it was to go

Jack

Edited by user Monday, 26 September 2011 10:43:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified