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202tonner Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, 14 October 2019 1:28:55 PM(UTC)
202tonner

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Looking for info on wiring/electrics. For a HJ tonner.

HEATER
What current does the heater fan draw?
I'm not sure what size wire to use without knowing how much power is required.
Yes, one of these days I'll get a current draw measuring ammeter gauge thingy, but until then...

WIPERS
And what do the wipers draw? Again for wire sizing.
Also is it worthwhile running power through a relay to the wipers to power them. Mine are a bit sluggish but it could also be that I've got the wiring wrong. From a quick look it seems that the wipers are powered by earthing the relevant terminal through the switch? Is this right? None of the switch terminals seem to have any connectivity.
The inbuilt washer pump has long perished so an accesory pump is used to pump the water instead.

LIGHTING SWITCH
Secondly can anyone explain the lighting switch?
There are 6 slots being used on mine.
Red from the fuse panel. I assume this always provides power so the relevant lights can be turned on without the ignition being on.
A doubled up terminal with a Purple and Dark Brown wire both in the same slot. These run the park/tail lights when the switch is pulled out for one click.
A Dark Green wire running to the dash illumination lights. This is a variable feed which allows the dash lights to be dimmed as the knob is rotated.
A Dark Blue wire, changed because I didn't have any Light Blue as would originally be in there. This runs to the dip switch to power the headlights when the switch is pulled out fully.
All good so far, I hope.

But the Orange and White wires confuse me. They are both connected to the interior light but I can't work out what it is happening. There aren't any door switches or footwell lights.
The Orange is a doubled up terminal with two Orange wires. One runs to the fuse panel, the other to the interior light. And the White wire runs to the interior light as well. This seems a bit complex so I think I'm missing something here. Somehow related to turning the interior light on by fully rotating the knob and/or using a door switch? Any clues?

There is also another unused terminal on the switch. It is the upper left one as you look at the mounted switch which AFAIK has never been used. Any idea what that does?

Thanks.
Dr Terry Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, 14 October 2019 3:00:21 PM(UTC)
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You've got most of this pretty well sorted.

Take a leaf out of GM-H's book & make your wiring similar to theirs, maybe go up 1 size of wire gauge. I can't help with precise current draw figures, but I would guess they would both be around 10A-15A max at full speed.

The wiring to the headlight switch is relatively straight forward.

Red is direct from the battery, usually from the starter terminal.

Purple & brown supplies parkers & tail-lights.

Dark green supplies the instrument illumination (via a separate small fuse in the fusebox)

Blue is headlight supply to the hi/low dipper switch.

Orange. 1 is 12v supply from the fusebox (this is for parkers/tails/instruments) & the 2nd is 12V supply to the dome light.

The white wire is the earth return from the dome light. The switch earths the dome light to switch it on. If you want to add door courtesy switches, connect them to this white wire.

AFAIK the unused terminal is for the older style parking lights where they are ON in the first position but they go OFF when the headlights are switched ON. This was only used for HK & earlier cars.
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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202tonner on 19/10/2019(UTC)
gm5735 Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, 16 October 2019 12:42:59 PM(UTC)
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I've rebuilt quite a few of the wiper motors, and measure the current on all of them as part of testing.
They draw anywhere between 2 and 4 amps on high speed at 13.5V.
The standard wire size, connectors and switch should easily handle that current.
The heater fan motors draw a little more, but not much.
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202tonner on 19/10/2019(UTC)
202tonner Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, 19 October 2019 7:37:33 PM(UTC)
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Great info. Thank you both.

I have tried to keep the wiring is as close to the original layout as possible but have added a heap of stuff as well. I use a minimum wire size of 3mm and larger wire is used if that won't handle the current (but I do round up excessively on wire sizes). Unfortunately I haven't been able to find some types of replacement terminal so a lot of substitution has occurred.

The lighting switch is much simpler than I thought. I wasn't looking for the White wire to be an earth! Since pretty well nothing else uses one I never even thought of that.d'oh!

And thanks for the power usage figures. I would have thought the wipers and heater use more. Glad to be "disappointed"!

One more question. The Gregory's wiring diagram mentions a fusible link near the starter motor. I think it is meant to be on the wire from the starter motor to the lighting switch. I have always assumed that this is the little rubber block which is a couple of inches from the starter motor terminal on that wire. Is that the case? Very handy if so to prevent accidental "welding" under the dash!
Dr Terry Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, 20 October 2019 8:42:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 202tonner Go to Quoted Post
One more question. The Gregory's wiring diagram mentions a fusible link near the starter motor. I think it is meant to be on the wire from the starter motor to the lighting switch. I have always assumed that this is the little rubber block which is a couple of inches from the starter motor terminal on that wire. Is that the case? Very handy if so to prevent accidental "welding" under the dash!


The "little rubber block" is the junction between the short piece of 'fusible' wire & the copper main 12V feed.

Originally Posted by: 202tonner Go to Quoted Post
And thanks for the power usage figures. I would have thought the wipers and heater use more. Glad to be "disappointed"!


Remember that the alternator on these old girls is only 35-40A output (55A with a/cond) so if you had too many appliances switched ON, the battery would go flat pretty quick. As a matter of fact if you headlights on hi-beam, wipers on fast speed, heater on fast fan, by the time you add in the current draw of the ignition system, things are a bit marginal even then.

Dr Terry
If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
202tonner Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, 20 October 2019 9:39:56 AM(UTC)
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Aah. So the fusible link is the bit of wire from the terminal to the rubber block. That's important info. I'm glad I never updated it! Thanks.

And she has a 70A alternator these days. No air-con but does have spotlights and a second battery.
The only trouble I've ever had was because I didn't realise that the dash alternator light is needed to energise the alternator so it can charge.
Explanation: when you turn the ignition on and the dash alternator light comes on this provides a small amount of power to the alternator. Through electro-magickery this allows the alternator to provide current to the battery to charge it. If the light doesn't come on (blown bulb or dodgy wiring) then the alternator can't provide this current. It may work for a while but eventually it will lose the ability to charge and the battery will go flat.
The good news is the vehicle will run for quite a while as the battery discharges but you won't have enough power to start it again if you turn it off. Also the headlights will get dimmer and dimmer (damhik).
A quick fix (because replacing the bulb requires a lot of dash dismantling or really thin quadruple-jointed arms) is to touch a test light from the positive battery terminal to the terminal on the back of the alternator where the thin brown wire attaches. I did this while the engine was running but I suspect it will work with only the ignition turned on (anyone know?). As the light glows you should hear a change in the engine note (slight drop in revs and sounding a bit more under load) as the alternator energises and starts charging. Once the alternator kicks in the test light isn't needed anymore. This is the same thing as having the dash light come on.
Many thanks to the auto-sparky who explained that to me.
TonyMax Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, 7 March 2024 6:33:06 PM(UTC)
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Great thread, and great information from all involved.

I've run into my first issue with my new car, some genius when they rewired the front end wired the headlights through the stop tail fuse, and the extra load blew 2 15A fuses last night, so I had to get it towed the last part home in the dark.

I'm hoping the fix will be as easy as finding the supply wire from the fuse box and replacing it with a wire from the battery.

Can you buy cables with fusible link in them from Repco etc.?
Dr Terry Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 5:32:02 AM(UTC)
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There is no fuse as such for the headlights, they are supplied directly from the headlight switch which contains its own thermal circuit breaker. The stop & tail-lights do have their own fuse.

Dr Terry

If at first you don't succeed, just call it Version 1.0
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TonyMax on 10/03/2024(UTC)
HK1837 Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 9:45:02 AM(UTC)
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What I used to do when I fitted 130W or 100W lamps was to mount a New Era block relay, the modern version in the attached link:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160993200038

You can mount it near to the battery and run a 12V wire straight to it, or mount it over on the driver side where the high beam and low beam wires are easier located. In which case use an inline fuse holder at the battery and run a wire across to it. Use the existing low and high beam wires to trigger the relays and power the low and high beam circuits off the fused outputs. Just replace the 30A fuses with maybe 5-10A for low beam and 10-20A for high beam just depending upon the lamp wattages.

All I used to do was pull the sockets out of the harness plugs at the headlamps, and use a wire with a male spade lug on it to plug into that socket which becomes your relay signal. Then buy the same wire socket that is in the harness plug, solder a bigger wire onto it and push it into the wiring plug - this wire goes to the relay output. The little suckets are held captive in the plug by a little pin which you depress with a little flat screw driver or paper clip and they pull out of the plug. They look like the attached, just buy the ones with the tab on them to be captive. Autobarn etc should have them:

https://www.ebay.com.au/...D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7yv5LTDYw
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TonyMax on 10/03/2024(UTC)
202tonner Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 2:15:18 PM(UTC)
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Keep in mind that the switches, connectors and wiring may be over 40 years old. Running a lot of amps through these can get a bit dodgy...as in "FIRE!".

I'm assuming it has a single headlight front. If so the first thing I would do is check the wattage of your high beams.
If they are 65W or less, running a fused wire from the battery to the existing wire which powers the headlights would work. Make sure to use an inline fuse near the battery, I think fusible links have been obsolete for a while now.
For best results I would run the new fused wire from the battery right to the terminal on the headlight switch. You will need a new terminal for that and crimpers to attach it to the wire.

If they have been upgraded to 100W I would use a relay instead.
I recommend the New Age ones. I've been using one for 20 years and it has run faultlessly, even with having to clean dirt and grass out of it!
Mine is mounted on the drivers mudguard with a fused wire running from the battery to power it. The existing wiring can feed into the relay and you can either add a bit of wire to lengthen the wires going to the headlights or, as HK suggests, replace these wires with new wire and new terminals.

Personally I would use a relay regardless of the wattage. Your lights will be significantly brighter if run through a relay and the high amps will be running through new wire. The thought of big amps going through old wiring under the dash gives me the willies!
I would also recommend you buy any parts you need from an auto-electrician. It might cost a couple of dollars more but you will be getting quality gear.

Good luck.
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TonyMax on 10/03/2024(UTC)
TonyMax Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 7:22:04 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the insights. Yes it's a single headlight front, which on first glance has sealed beams.

Part of me wants to leave it original, as I won't be doing a lot of night driving, but the other part of me wants to change it to H4 inserts and put 100/55 globes in with relays.

Edited by user Friday, 8 March 2024 7:22:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

HK1837 Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 7:35:58 PM(UTC)
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If you do it how I described you can do it all without cutting wires. You might just have to get a bit of scrap alloy and make up a bracket for the relay that mounts to existing holes in the car.
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TonyMax on 10/03/2024(UTC)
TonyMax Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 8:33:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: HK1837 Go to Quoted Post
What I used to do when I fitted 130W or 100W lamps was to mount a New Era block relay, the modern version in the attached link:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160993200038

If I put in a relay should I ideally run a wire for each side all the way from the relay, or (probably not) run to one side and then branch off to the other side?

Also with the earth wire from the headlight plug do I run it to earth near the light each side or run an earth wire back to a good earth somewhere?

I found this to help me if I go down the relay road:

Wiring

wbute Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, 8 March 2024 9:30:32 PM(UTC)
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I wouldn’t waste my time on the standard headlights. Just buy a set of LED driving lights. They are 400 times better than any globe light and draw bugger all power.
That way you can leave all your original wiring original.
TonyMax Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, 9 March 2024 7:44:54 AM(UTC)
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I'm not putting driving lights on this 😁.


202tonner Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, 9 March 2024 8:33:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TonyMax Go to Quoted Post

If I put in a relay should I ideally run a wire for each side all the way from the relay, or (probably not) run to one side and then branch off to the other side?

Both ways will work.
You could run a wire to the near headlight and crimp or solder a second wire into that terminal and then run the second wire over to the far light. This is how I double up wires and it works well.
But for headlights ideally you would run a wire to each high beam and each low beam, so 4 wires without joins or branching. Then if there is a fault in the wire you only lose one headlight. Having both go off at the same time is a bit scary!
Originally Posted by: TonyMax Go to Quoted Post

Also with the earth wire from the headlight plug do I run it to earth near the light each side or run an earth wire back to a good earth somewhere?

Whatever works. If you don't want to cut wires then leave everything as original as possible as see what happens. If you start having problems upgrade the wiring to give a better earth.
I think the standard earth is to a mudguard bolt near the lights and this seems to work OK for standard lights.
If you upgrade to 100W and/or use a relay I would recommend a dedicated wire (as in your diagram) back to the battery. You will be getting more current so you will get better results if you make it easy for the electricity to flow.
My 100W high beams are earthed to the mudguard bolt and every now and then I have earthing problems. Reading this has helped me decide to go with a battery earth for them. So thanks!
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TonyMax on 10/03/2024(UTC)
wbute Offline
#17 Posted : Sunday, 10 March 2024 7:41:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TonyMax Go to Quoted Post
I'm not putting driving lights on this 😁.




I wouldn’t either but I wouldn’t be modifying the wiring if it’s original.

wbute Offline
#18 Posted : Sunday, 10 March 2024 7:47:08 AM(UTC)
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I upgraded the headlights on my WB with the relay mod. It’s pointless though as if you actually put higher wattage globes in, they overload the connection on the headlights and melt them instead of overloading the headlight switch.
So you go to all that trouble, end up still running the shitful tiny globes and can’t see shit at night.
Not to mention when you go back to low beam you may as well turn the lights off altogether.
Even new cars don’t have decent bloody lights, which really become obvious if you have to do any regular country night driving.
HK1837 Offline
#19 Posted : Sunday, 10 March 2024 9:15:49 AM(UTC)
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Which is why I put a monster light bar on my Ram. Standard lights were junk.
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TonyMax Offline
#20 Posted : Sunday, 10 March 2024 9:36:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wbute Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TonyMax Go to Quoted Post
I'm not putting driving lights on this 😁.




I wouldn’t either but I wouldn’t be modifying the wiring if it’s original.


I'm pretty sure the wiring isn't original, as someone has wired the headlights through the tail light fuse. Even if it is original wiring, it's a replica GTS so I won't feel bad about modifying things to be safer.
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