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castellan Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, 30 December 2021 10:04:32 AM(UTC)
castellan

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The Aussie Holden V8 oil pump how does she truly work you all.
Now such a think as a pump is easy to understand but in truth who truly understands the whole workings totally ?

Now I seen a dude messing with such a pump to increase volume or people going for a high volume pump, ok that's another point as to why and all.
But lets just start from the basic workings.

Now I had a HG 253 back in 1982 and I pulled the pump out to have a look at it as people were saying that they were rubbish as they flog out the body from metal getting pumped past the gears. ok ! mine had over 100000 miles up on it and the body look ok, but I pulled the pressure regulator apart and that was so full of metal all the way to the top to the piston, so how does it work or do it's job correctly if the spring can not function correctly ?
Ok I cleaned it all out and popped the pump back on all fine, but I do remember that the pump had a date 2? July 1971 I think and it was in ink, no matter but I just remember that ink stain on the block.

So the PSI piston must move up and down some what to regulate the PSI ? now at idle the piston must go up to feed the engine more so and when the revs go up then the piston must be coming down. as the speed of the gears are adding more oil. so the Regulator is regulating PSI, now how does it do that ? truly.
The regulator piston moves and it is in a spot under the gears and so the oil is being driven up top to where we have the PSI relief valve, no matter with that point until it exceeds it's PSI limit and it bypasses the oil filter.

So we had a volume above the gears holding the PSI relief valve and the PSI sender pickup to out oil light or gauge, so that's the point that we are reading the PSI from.

Now why would a pump flog out ? why did people give the pump a bad rap ? as to metal chewing out the pump why or how could such be the problem, well the oil filter only lets metal pass under a size limit so that can not be the real problem of chewing out the body in casing the gears can it, so such must be the bypass valve letting bigger crap or it's the regulator is full of metal ?

Now you can increase the PSI from Std 65 PSI to 75 PSI by shimming under the regulator spring, but what of the bypass valve setting what's that ? so if you pass that PSI then you are bypassing the oil filter, not to mention the oil filter has a valve function as well.

So that's just something to start from, if anyone wants to chime in on the subject.
Smitty2 Online
#2 Posted : Thursday, 30 December 2021 7:39:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: castellan Go to Quoted Post
..............

So that's just something to start from, if anyone wants to chime in on the subject.


me.. ? personally I like them, the ingenious design and the quirks of that. Have been playing/modding
and rebuilding them .. std type(alloy and cast), high pressure and high volume for 40 odd years but you DO
need to know the whole oiling system setup on a Holden and how it works

yeah.. ppl go spare over the fact the pump will not work, will not pick up the
golden fluid if a new pump, new engine etc. But that is not totally the pumps
fault and no... packing the little pharker with vasoline will NOT work either.
(My secret weapon is in the pic below)

But hey.. Chevs are no different with an internal pump that needs priming thru a
long rod attached to a drill

Even the drive is simple, typical aussie design.. it works for LOTS of kms

Edited by user Thursday, 30 December 2021 7:41:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
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#3 Posted : Monday, 3 January 2022 11:53:40 PM(UTC)
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It was a bad design from day-1 and was one of the most troublesome components mentioned in Ed Silins' design notes.



"I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood" (George Carlin)
Smitty2 Online
#4 Posted : Wednesday, 5 January 2022 7:07:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RigPig Go to Quoted Post
It was a bad design from day-1 and was one of the most troublesome components mentioned in Ed Silins' design notes.




haha.. and they stuck with it shows that it ended up all ok. Millions of engines with a bad design oil pump.

btw .. those notes are EXACTLY what you expect when developing something like this.
WE make and develop and upgrade a large range of water control devices at work...
these are used in Hot water systems, fire fighting systems, domestic and commercial water
supply as well as general plumbing.

The first one listed (and highlighted) in the pic got a chuckle from me...
oil pump relief valve stuck again.. caused by swarf.

I watched a test on a prototype PRV (pressure reducing valve) at work just
before Christmas. The failure from 8000psi water pressure was spectacular!

The cause of the PRV failure ...? swarf Brick wall


Club circuit racing...the best fun you can have with your pants on
castellan Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, 5 January 2022 12:11:48 PM(UTC)
castellan

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Originally Posted by: Smitty2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RigPig Go to Quoted Post
It was a bad design from day-1 and was one of the most troublesome components mentioned in Ed Silins' design notes.




haha.. and they stuck with it shows that it ended up all ok. Millions of engines with a bad design oil pump.

btw .. those notes are EXACTLY what you expect when developing something like this.
WE make and develop and upgrade a large range of water control devices at work...
these are used in Hot water systems, fire fighting systems, domestic and commercial water
supply as well as general plumbing.

The first one listed (and highlighted) in the pic got a chuckle from me...
oil pump relief valve stuck again.. caused by swarf.

I watched a test on a prototype PRV (pressure reducing valve) at work just
before Christmas. The failure from 8000psi water pressure was spectacular!

The cause of the PRV failure ...? swarf Brick wall




So if the swarf builds up the Piston don't move down and eventually she could move up ? the higher the more pressure.
How does this piston moving up and down truly regulate the PSI within the pump body.

And why does the swarf get in, you would think that such a thing that everything goes through the filter. well one would think, So who checks the valve ? no one ! and why not, well if you do or did want to have a look see, the point as to why not to do such is, you will have to prime the pump after doing such, I do believe.
So one can not just have a look see by undoing the nut, pull out the spring, don't touch the piston ? and just dig the swarf out and put the spring back in and do up the nut. If the piston comes out well the oil may come out ? so then you will not have to prim the pump ?

That being said I think nothing is wrong with the design of the pump.
As I was worried back in 1982 of story's of the pumps being rubbish, so I puled mine out to have a look see and all was fine but for all the swarf, it was so much full of swarf that I am sure the piston could not move, so can they work full of swarf, then what happens ? all the swarf just chews out the body ? or was most of such as that story to do with people taking the intake off or the heads and letting all the shit drop into the sump and then the pump picks that shit up and chews out the pump and then some dumb c makes stupid claims that the pumps are 3rd rate shit.

I had a oil pump on my 308 do over 460.000km so they can't be shit.

Then comes the story of a engine with revving duty over say 5500rpm or then again to say 6500 and then again over 6500rpm ? then issues can change!

I have always thought of the stock Holden Red motors being able to sit on 4500rpm all day long on the highway, so if you were to run in the NT keep it under 4500 and all is fine but if you go up to over 4800rpm is a no no because the valves get hammered due to a shimmy effect and at 5000rpm you get valve bounce. you may be able to rev to 5500rpm in 1st 2ed and 3rd for a short burst, but by top gear the time frame of the shimmy kicks in, not to mention this hammers the collets I believe and they flog out and you can then end up to drop a valve.

So the pump is fine to 4500rpm easy all day long regardless and maybe to 5500rpm ?
So this gets to why should one modify the pump. why and how and when ? Is volume a problem ? is PSI a problem ? I would think to 5000rpm, no !

I remember a mates Red 308 and it revved to 7000rpm and it had flats machined on the side of the lifters, now that would of made more of a demand on the oil pump ? but it was fine.
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